Hard to write about

[judy]

I haven't been on a lot lately. I've been feeling very heavy and like I can't move forward. I know I'm lonely, but that's not insurmountable. I'm somewhat bored, partly because it was too hot this summer to do anything, and partly because I don't know what I want to do. Neither of these are things that can't be overcome.

This is hard to write about because I'm not clear about my feelings, and also because when I'm feeling down, I keep to myself for a while.

I realized a few weeks ago that since I'm 60 now, I have about 30 good years left (being very, very optimistic). I began to think about choices. What do I want to do with those 30 years? I asked myself if I wanted to be alone (single) and I don't.
I'm not into looking for someone right now, but I think I may start anyway. Not to sound negative - but to be realistic - 30 years isn't that long, and I don't have the luxury of letting things just happen. Of course, I could just spend my life like that too. It would be really easy. It is a choice to just let life happen, but it doesn't fit well with who I am. I would regret it I think.

The hardest part has to do with my daughter. I'm not happy and excited about life like I want to be. I posted a while ago that I had sent her flowers on 9/11. I had also sent her a note asking her if she wanted to, would she please call my financial guy with the children's' SS#'s because she and the children are my beneficiaries. I didn't expect an answer to either. A few days ago, I looked at my cell phone and noticed 2 messages. They were from her husband and were disgusting and nasty and stupid and negative. Truthfully, if he weren't involved with my daughter, I doubt if I would even care, he's so over the top vile. What really upset me was that she allows him to treat me like this.

I've been so upset wondering what it was that I could possibly have done for her to hate me so much. I really didn't do anything that terrible. I made mistakes like all mothers do, but I certainly don't deserve this. I hate to say this, but I do not like her, nor do I think she's emotionally normal. This began before her MS, but got really bad after she was diagnosed. I'm not comfortable blaming the MS, but maybe the anger associated with being so sick. Or, maybe it is the MS. I still don't deserve it. I do feel so terribly sad that she's got such an illness. I'm so confused.


None of this means that I don't love her and as much as I just want to move on ,
it frightens me that we won't ever have a relationship again. I don't know how to reconcile with that so that I can be happy again. I know I deserve to be happy. I have no idea of how to get there.

I'm really glad I wrote this. I needed to write it out for clarity and I needed to share it in a completely honest way. I love you ail for being here. I know I can say what I need to say with you.

Judy

[Mandy]

I'm glad you vented, you know we are here for you!
Sorry you feeling like this, but i see it as a wake up call. It's time to live life for yourself, and you owe it to yourself to be happy!
If it means with a new partner, if that's what you want, dont let anyone hold you back.
Dont wait for your daughter, i know this must be terribly terribly difficult, but girl, you cant sit back, and wait for her to stop, and smell the roses. If she is happy living with a man that keeps her under control, then that is her choice, but do not let it affect you whole life.
You have alot to live for girl, you have 2 beautiful fur babies that will never ever hurt you!
You are a very pretty lady, dont let "them" get to you, because that will spoil the fun life has to offer you, and that is a whole lot!

[goofywife]

Wow, I am glad you shared, what a heavy burden. I really do not know what to tell you except to pray. We have been watching a series on Life Church's website called 30 days. It is about what would you do if you had 30 days to live.

Your daughter is a grown women with children of her own. I went through some really bad times with my daugther when she was a teenager. I kept praying and one day it happened. It was a mothers day. SInce then (about 6 years now) we have really enjoyed a great relationship. Fron your post it seems like your daugthers husband is whats blocking your realtionship her.

I will pray for her heart to open to you. Life is too short.


http://www.lifechurch.tv/p/39/Default.aspx?SermonID=115&SermonVideoWeek=4&Criteria=30%20days

[AngieDoogles]

Judy, I'm so sorry you are feeling down right now. We are here for you ANYTIME you ever need to vent.

It just breaks my heart to hear that you are feeling so sad, but remember how many wonderful things you have in your life. You have two adorable little furbabies, you are independent, caring, compassionate, you are active, beautiful, strong, healthy. You have a lot of things to be thankful for, as we all do, sometimes it's just hard to find them and focus on those things instead of the negatives.

Your daughter is really missing out on a lot by not talking to you. You are a wonderful, amazing person and I'm sure she'd be so much happier if she would just stand up to her husband and let you in her life. I will continue to pray that this happens.

Remember, we are here for you anytime you're feeling down. *hugs*

[Lindsey]

Judy, I'm glad you got all your feelings out... sometimes just writing it all out or telling someone is half the weight. Your daughter is an adult, she can make her own decisions. I know it must tear you apart, but hopefully she will realize soon that she only gets one mother, and people don't live forever.
You're a wonderful person, and to tell you the truth, I look up to you! I feel that you're such a strong woman, and you know what you want, and you go for it. You have gotten out of bad relationships and you're okay with being single. I'm usually asked by older women "Do you have a boyfriend? When are you getting married?" As a single(ish) woman, I have a lot of respect for other woman who are comfortable enough with themselves to not NEED a man. I understand being lonely, and I hope you can find a companion who will fill an empty spot in your life. Until then, you have your adorable furbabies and all the women here who love you!

[judy]

Thanks for your wonderful support, and especially your prayers. I need to find my way through the heartbreak to the happiness. It's like a wall I've come up against and don't know how to pass through to the other side.

I'm not saying it won't always hurt, but hurt doesn't have to negate happiness.

(MS is a terrible disease, and I don't ever expect to feel okay about that. That just sucks for her! That's a whole different issue though).

[Tink]

Judy, I have really missed you on the site. While I love the younger ladies here, for me it's such a treat to have women more my own age to talk with! I spent years working on a parenting site so most of the online friends I made are in their 20's and 30's and at totally different stages of life than I am. Finding you, Janet, and DianaB posting here has meant so much to me! I just wish we all lived close enough to actually get together and visit in person. I know I'd have a ball.

I used to be on anti-depressants and still struggled to enjoy my life. So I can relate to where you're at. It's a lonely cold place that no one should have to be in. What helped me was to finally take control of my own life. I pray you can do the same.
The Serenity prayer helped me...
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I can not change, (your daughter being married to an abusive butthead certainly fits in this category)
the courage to change the things I can, (If you want a partner, by all means go out and find one! You're beautiful, loving, fun and smart! Any man would be lucky to find you!)
and the wisdom to know the difference. (Which I trust you already have)
Even if you're not a "religious" person, there is wisdom to be found in it.

What did you enjoy doing prior to having kids and responsibilities? Any hobby, or causes you'd like to return to? I know my going back into breeding dogs has really increased my daily smiles. I bet there's something you'd enjoy too that you gave up due to lack of time and freedom that you could enjoy again.

If you want to look for a partner, go to the places you'd like one to go to WITH you... and hopefully he will be there alone wishing he had someone to share the experience with too. Don't discount a younger man... I dare say you could keep up with one just fine and he'd be at your side longer than if you choose someone older.

You SO deserve to be happy. The hard part is getting off your butt and out the door to make it happen. HUGS

[judy]

Dear Tink,

Thanks so much. I really love our young women too, but we do share a certain wisdom and life experience....No offense to the younger women - you bring your youthful energy and hope.

Great words to think about - I do have trouble accepting her husband ("Swamp Thing" is my personal nickname for him).

I'm going to give some serious thought to what I used to enjoy. I know being creative is up there, taking classes, and I like yoga and meditation.

The man - yes, younger is what I need. I'm not talking about too young, but a man my own age is just too damn old!

Now, as far as getting my butt out the door..that's a a very good idea! I've been waiting until I'm ready. No, no, do it now!

Thank you my dear friend,

Judy

[Gina]

Judy,

I have not been on much myself lately just busy working. What is nice about this forum is that everyone can vent and express their anger and their happiness. We are a diversed group which make it interesting. We can offer the young ones advice from our experience from growing been there and done that ,and they in turn can offer us the new way of thinking of todays generation. So it is a great mix.

To address your first concern, you are only 60 and your a pretty woman who does not look her age. You should be out there dating, I don't mean the bar scene I am sure that along with us all growing up in NYC you did that. If it is your thing so be it, but I know a lot of women who go on match.com , another one is plenty of fish.com.. yeah what a name lol. They have met wonderful men on these websites. This is the new era of meeting people via the internet, along with caution that should be no problem. Whether you want to remarry or not should not be an issue right now you need a friend to take you to dinner and wine and dine you. We all like to be pampered me to...lol I also have friends who date younger men, my friends are my age 50 and date 40 yrs old. Age is a preference, 60 is the new 50 and you should date men regardless of age factor. If they treat you well that is all that matters, Be he 40 or 70 lol.. thats just my opinion. If the internet is not your thing, go to barnes and noble, or anywhere where they have parents without partners . I have been out of Bklyn awhile now so I don't know where people go to meet others. But get out there and DATE...

As far as your daughter, I don't know why she is treating you this way. You are her mother and the only one she will ever have. I think this creep of a husband is definitely controlling her, she is in a way in his mercy. She should let you into her life for your retired and I know that you would be by her side helping her and helping taking care of your grandkids. I don't know if its right thing to do but I would try to contact his mother or family and ask why her son is shutting you out of your daughter's and grandchildren's lives. Do you think its him?, intercepting the calls , maybe she needs to get help and you have to find a way to get her out of there. I am just trying to understand this. Judy I have come to believe is that whatever goes around comes around. They have children, not to wish bad things on them..

Judy I guess you have tried and there is nothing much you can do. Yes it is awful that your only child is acting this way. She knows your there and there is nothing more you can do at this point...It will hurt yes, but hopefuly it will get resolved....

Sorry for the long post pm me anytime... Good luck! and start mingling lol

[Forgivenmom5]

Judy I am still praying for a miracle in your relationship with your daughter but if that doesn't happen you know you have done your best.

[judy]

Judy,

I have not been on much myself lately just busy working. What is nice about this forum is that everyone can vent and express their anger and their happiness. We are a diversed group which make it interesting. We can offer the young ones advice from our experience from growing been there and done that ,and they in turn can offer us the new way of thinking of todays generation. So it is a great mix.

To address your first concern, you are only 60 and your a pretty woman who does not look her age. You should be out there dating, I don't mean the bar scene I am sure that along with us all growing up in NYC you did that. If it is your thing so be it, but I know a lot of women who go on match.com , another one is plenty of fish.com.. yeah what a name lol. They have met wonderful men on these websites. This is the new era of meeting people via the internet, along with caution that should be no problem. Whether you want to remarry or not should not be an issue right now you need a friend to take you to dinner and wine and dine you. We all like to be pampered me to...lol I also have friends who date younger men, my friends are my age 50 and date 40 yrs old. Age is a preference, 60 is the new 50 and you should date men regardless of age factor. If they treat you well that is all that matters, Be he 40 or 70 lol.. thats just my opinion. If the internet is not your thing, go to barnes and noble, or anywhere where they have parents without partners . I have been out of Bklyn awhile now so I don't know where people go to meet others. But get out there and DATE...

As far as your daughter, I don't know why she is treating you this way. You are her mother and the only one she will ever have. I think this creep of a husband is definitely controlling her, she is in a way in his mercy. She should let you into her life for your retired and I know that you would be by her side helping her and helping taking care of your grandkids. I don't know if its right thing to do but I would try to contact his mother or family and ask why her son is shutting you out of your daughter's and grandchildren's lives. Do you think its him?, intercepting the calls , maybe she needs to get help and you have to find a way to get her out of there. I am just trying to understand this. Judy I have come to believe is that whatever goes around comes around. They have children, not to wish bad things on them..

Judy I guess you have tried and there is nothing much you can do. Yes it is awful that your only child is acting this way. She knows your there and there is nothing more you can do at this point...It will hurt yes, but hopefuly it will get resolved....

Sorry for the long post pm me anytime... Good luck! and start mingling lol

Dear Gina,

Thanks for the compliments. That's always nice! And no bars for this Brooklyn girl! I like the "plenty of fish.com" name. I've hear Match.com sucks, but I only need one guy. I like monogamous relationships best. I never had the energy to put up with more than one guy at a time.

As far as my daughter, yes - I have tried pretty much everything. Calling his parents is a waste of time. They're total enablers - he's an alcoholic - and at this point probably hate me too. Their son disgusts me, so I guess I can't blame them. They're not going to see him for who he really is.

No - the ball is now in my daughter's court. It's all up to her. The very sad thing for her is that she is very sick and does need him, or thinks she does. She has 3 young children and MS. She's stuck between a rock and a hard place too. I'm very strong. What would I do in her shoes? I'd like to think that after some time, I'd gather up my strength, overcome my fears, and put my foot down to my husband. The truth is, he needs her as much as she needs him. She gives his lazy, loser lifestyle legitimacy. He can feel like a man.

Well...we can write a book about him, but he's really not worth the energy.
Truthfully, right now, neither is she, except for prayers for her health and the children. I need my energy to get on with my life or I'll find that I spent it all waiting fir her to come around.


Judy

[judy]

Hi Debby,

It's good to hear from you! I hope you're having a good day.

Thanks for the prayers and back at ya!

Love,

Judy

[DianaB]

Judy, you've had lots of advice already and I agree with what the other ladies have to say. You're a very young 60 and I think that if you're lonely you should start looking for someone to fill that need. You know best where you want to meet someone and if it's on-line I say go for it!!!

I'm sorry about the relationship that you have with your daughter. I can't imagine anything hurting more then not having the relationship with your daughter that you'd like to have. Her husband is a jerk, but still she surely has times that she could pick up the phone and call you if she wanted. Maybe she's scared to. Is she home alone while he's at work? If so, then I'd make a visit during that time and see how she's doing. Maybe send her a card but don't put your return address on it and include a letter to her. Don't include anything negative in the letter. Just let her know that you miss her and love her.

I'm glad that you let us know how you're feeling and what you're going through. We only have one life to live so get out there and enjoy it!!! I'll keep you in my prayers!!!!

[judy]

I found out yesterday that my daughter moved about 5 hours away sometime over the summer. My hairdresser knows us both, and she told me. That's what one of the phone calls from her husband was about.

I'm glad she's moved if that's what she wants, but I just can't believe that the daughter I raised and loved and still love would move without even sending me a postcard. Now I know for sure that it wasn't anything I did wrong. I would know if I had been so terrible a mother that my own daughter would move and not let me know, and I definitely know I wasn't that kind of mother.

I already found out her address and phone number. It's so easy online.

I'm so hurt, I'm numb.

[Tink]

{{{Judy}}}
I'm sorry your daughter is so distant toward you. I can understand why that has to hurt. Sadly there's not much you can do about it, as I know you've made the effort to close that gap. I can't imagine you were a bad mother at all. You obviously love her in spite of your differences.

I hope in time she comes to her senses for both your sake.

[DianaB]

Judy, I'm so sorry about all of this. I know that it must hurt you very much. Your daughter is certainly the one missing out on having her mother near her especially when she needs you so much now. Here's a big hug from me.......:hug:

[judy]

Thanks Tink, and everyone else,

I'm still in shock that she would do such a thing. She could have dropped a postcard in the mail without him ever knowing. She could have said not to contact her.

But, she didn't, and that's the reality I have to face. It sucks, but now I do know that it was never my fault! I always had the normal "mother guilt," thinking that maybe I did do terrible things that I just didn't see.

The truth is I just didn't, so it is her. Like my cousin told me yesterday - I'm beginning to feel closure by accepting that it isn't my fault. I hope she's right.
Closure is important.

I've been taking all of your advice - getting off my butt and out the door. It really helps, so thanks.

I just wish she didn't have MS. That's a whole separate issue - she started treating me badly before she got sick. I do think the husband has a great deal to to do with it. But, MS is a terrible disease to live with. I could be helping her and the children.

Ohhh (sigh)

Love you all,

[Mandy]

Judy, it is very important to feel closure, so you can move on. I am glad to hear that you are passed the stage of guilt, and realizing that you are guilty of nothing. It might be, that her husband, and hes family have made her depandent on them/him, who knows what all they said to her. At times, when we "let it go" it all falls into place.

Hugs to you girl, we love you! :ghug:

[AngieDoogles]

Judy, I'm so glad you're getting some closure in this situation. I still hope and pray that your daughter comes around eventually. She NEEDS to get out of that relationship and she'll need your help if she ever makes that decision.

It's good that you're getting out and doing things. One of my favorite quotes from Harry Potter is "It does not do to dwell on dreams and forget to live" (Dumbledore). I think it's fitting. You can't sit around and wait for her to realize her mistakes. You have your own life to live. You have the right to be happy. I'm glad you are making that happen! You are really a huge inspiration to me...

[judy]

Thanks y'all! I decided that the best way to move on is to forgive her and love her
no matter what.

This is no easy task....but I have about 30 years at least to get to that point.

Thanks for your prayers that we do reconcile. Then I wouldn't have to all this closure, forgiveness, etc. stuff. Seriously, that is really what I want. I do love her and I love my grandchildren, plus she's got a serious illness and I want to help her.

Sometimes I wonder why God decided that I have to be so strong. I wish he would have asked me first! I would have said "oh, no, no. no....thanks anyway."

[katepoet]

Hi Judy
Just some thoughts about MS. Did you know that NIH is doing a huge study on whether it is really late stage Lyme disease? Do you know that Lyme triggers over 300 immune system disorders and can make people grumpy and uncommunicative? Three people I know had MS go into remission with treatment for Lyme. Lyme is contagious - no tick bite required. (My son got it in-utero from me.)

Maybe your daughter's illness is causing her inability to communicate and her view of the world. If you think of it as part of her illness, maybe it is less personal.

Kate

[judy]

Hi Kate,

Welcome to 4WT. It's good to have you here.

I did not know that MS is possibly late stage Lyme Disease. Thank you for your compassionate perspective. I do hold the fact that she is ill and frightened, and tired, and more than likely overwhelmed, in my heart.

In fact, from, what I hear she is doing quite well lately and I am really proud of her
for overcomimg all of these obstacles.

I have to be honest though and say that she still has broken my heart - what can I tell you - I'm human.

Life is a very interesting process!

Judy

[katepoet]

More on Lyme, it can be the cause behind almost every diagnosis in the PDM - the Psychiatric Diagnostic Manual. It can trigger phobias, bi-polar, ADHD, ADD, autism... the list goes on.

When I have a problem with someone's attitude, I try to think "She or he has a undiagnosed or untreated illness." It still hurts with the ones I love when they reject me but it helps me keep things in perspective.

[rivermom]

I think i held my breath as I read the entire thread from Judy. I think possibly it seems our daughters forget that we are not just Mother's but a person. Their expectations at times are too high for anyone to meet, I just don't know and wish I had all the answers.

Judy - I can relate to you in so many ways reading your thread.....My heart goes out to you in more ways then one!!

[judy]

Dear Sheryl,

Thank you - that is so sweet and so sincere. I appreciate your compassion a lot.

Judy

[rivermom]

Dear Sheryl,

Thank you - that is so sweet and so sincere. I appreciate your compassion a lot.

Judy


Judy - In a sense I thank you. I thank you for being brave and opening up about what has truly broken your heart. I also am in a very similar situation with my daughter. I have gone through many emotions that you do. I find in a sense comfort realizing that I am not the only Mother wishing for a loving relationship with their daughter.

It is very healthy that you are coming to a place in your heart and mind where you find some peace with the situation. Situations like these in my belief are not something that can ever be closed but placed where it is healthier to deal/live with. I am glad you have found that placement within you.

Our unconditional love for our child(ren) is such an amazing gift. We can only hope that they accept it.

[judy]

Dear Sheryl,

I'll keep your pain in my heart and you do the same for me. That's how you know that, no matter what, life is really good.

Love,

Judy

[Marilyn]

Sorry I haven't been around much lately and just finished reading this entire thread. Judy, I cannot imagine what you are and have been going through. And you are there in that huge city.

The ladies here have been so supportive of you and given you such good advice, all I can do is agree with them. I'll pray for you and your daughter and that you find someone who will understand and appreciate you who will share your amazing life with you.

I know people who have used some of the online services to find their special someone and have been very happy with the results. At least it's a step in the right direction.

I'm not far behind you in age, and actually 30 years is a long time. Lots of time to do some quality living!!!

[judy]

Thank you Marilyn! I just got a message from a man on one of those on-line services. He's 48 (12 years younger, but maybe that's okay), kind of cute in the way I like, intelligent, sense of humor....

But then I read on:(

5'7" (I like a bit taller) - certainly it's something I could live with though.

Earns 75 - 100K/year - OKAY!

No kids, divorced - Not terrible, but I love kids, and would love a family. However, maybe I could live with that.

Lives with roommates - ????? Aren't grown-ups supposed to have their own homes, apartments, etc. In my world, they are.

Lives on a budget - on 75 - 100K/year, living with roommates? No, no. no.

He got deleted.

I thank you for your prayers Marilyn. I keep telling God I want her back in my life.
I know he hears me. He must have a really good reason for this, but extra prayers can't hurt!

[katepoet]

Maybe living with roommates is because he didn't have kids and misses having family. Friends are a way of being connected.

I expect one day to live with women again, sort of like college but perhaps more of we each have our own apartment in a communal structure with communal gardens, etc. (If I outlast my husband, that is.)

[AngieDoogles]

Judy, I'm so glad you are out there looking for someone. Congrats to you! Even if you don't find your "soul mate" right away, at least you can have some fun and maybe make a few friends along the way. Good luck!

[judy]

I have had some very funny online experiences, but haven't made friends with anyone yet, Angie. That would be really nice. I enjoy having male friends a lot.

Kate,

That does sound nice. In a man though, I want someone who can live alone and take care of himself. I'm not good with needy people.

[katepoet]

I guess I don't think of wanting community as being needy. I think of it as healthy. I think I get the gist of what you mean, though, and if you get the ick feeling from his words - toss him out!

[judy]

If you put all of his responses together, I don't get a feeling that he's evolved enough for a need for community. You have to look at the whole picture.

He's been tossed.

[katepoet]

Got it! Go for it, Judy! Don't settle for too little - you are worth it!

[Janet]

I'm trying to get my sister-in-law to try one of the on-line dating services. She needs a bigger, faster computer though and she just may get one. She's just not sure about the on-line services. I think it would be fun. Get to know one another first, keep all the correspondence, check for discrepencies....lol sound like a detective...lol. Anyway..she's just like you and deserves to have someone in her life if that is indeed what you want, she does.

I'd be more than happy to send mine to ya....he's 54, stingy, self-centered, not too bright (failed to grow as he aged) and pretty much your average pain in the butt. What d'ya say....any one.....any one????

[Mandy]

Judy, you go girl :thumbup: just remember, you deserve the best!

And Janet, you are cracking me up totally ROFLMAO!

[katepoet]

Sometimes you can just beef up the computer you have with more RAM and still do really well. If you like have her choose "Run" from the start menu, type in dxdiag then enter and the computer will create a file that tells just what she has in her cpu. If you don't know computers you are welcome to send it to me and my son and I will sort out what she can do, if anything, with what she has:)