Religious Affiliation

[CoyoteQueen]

Ive saw several of you posting things about your beliefs or church, so I am curious.........LOL! who is what?

I am in the process of converting to Catholisicm (did I spell that right) myself.
I also consider myself somewhat pagan..........

so everyone, whats your faith?

[Jess36]

I am Christian, but I don't belong to any denomination. We stopped going to church when my parents split up. It's not that we aren't spiritual, but we were just kind of disgusted by the fact that everyone who previously liked us, all of a sudden wouldn't even make eye contact with us on Sundays. I attended a UCC church when we lived in Philly, and I liked that a lot. When my dd is old enough to understand religion, I plan on taking her to one of those churches.

[CoyoteQueen]

hey jess, whats UCC?

[Jess36]

United Church of Christ. It was nice because they didn't care if you were gay, straight, married, whatever. I'm not saying that they are the only church who is like that, but they had a very nice way of making everyone feel welcome.

[CoyoteQueen]

wonder if there is a difference between united and just plain church of christ? we have ALOT of church of christers around here! oh, jemmor is one!!!!

did they have music in the service?

[Jess36]

I don't know. It might be the same thing. We did have some music, but it wasn't going on all the time.

[Lissa]

wonder if there is a difference between united and just plain church of christ? we have ALOT of church of christers around here! oh, jemmor is one!!!!

did they have music in the service?


United Church of Christ and Church of Christ, are two very different identities. Actually there isn't a central Church of Christ(like the Vatican is to the Catholic Church) so pretty much every church of Christ can be different, unfortunately many are liberal and some are conservative, so you can't judge one by another.

The basis behind the church of Christ is the Bible and nothing but, no human creeds or traditions. Musical insterments are a big debate and the easy way to identify a liberal one is their presence. As we have no examples of musical insterments being used in worship in the New Testament they are largely avoided, with congregational A Cappella singing being the form of musical worship. ("Eph 5:19 addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart." says to sing, not play insterments)

If you haven't guessed yet, I am a member of a church of Christ, but I'm not a church of Christer. Another way to tell a liberal vs a conservative member is their willingness to assume that title. I am not a member of any denomination, I am simply a member of the Lord's church as explained in the New Testament. I speak where the Bible speaks and remain silent where it is silent. Thus I do not believe in musical insterments being used in worship, I do not believe women should be allowed to preach (our role is elsewhere), and I believe that God left the path to Salvation in it's perfect form in the written Word and there is nothing more needed, thus human creeds and traditions are a hinderance to our ability to attain salvation. 2 Timothy 3:16-17: "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness." John 12:48 - "The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day." Mat 15:8-9 "'This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'" I'm not willing to risk my soul creeds and traditions, Mat 7:21-23 : "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.' " So I put my faith in the Bible and nothing but.

I have no denominational affilliation, I am simply a member of the Lord's church that happens to meet at a place called the University church of Christ in San Marcos, Texas.

[DianaB]

We attend the Assembly of God church where my whole family attends, from my Mother to my grandchildren. Our church is a very active church and there's always things going on to keep you busy. Right now I'm teaching a Sunday School class (You only have to teach for 6 weeks at a time.), I sing solos, I'm suppose to be helping in Children's church (just started), and I try to help where I'm needed. We have a great pastor and my church family feels like family to me.

I am a Spirit-filled, born again believer. I love the Lord with all of my heart and my desire is to live a life directed by Him. The Lord has been good to us. I have a family that was always brought up in church and my family life has been blessd by God. To make things short, we have the kind of family that most people would want to be a part of. I can only give the credit to God.

[HeatherMaran]

I think I would get banned from here for my beliefs, so I'll keep quiet! ;)

[Marilyn]

United Church of Christ and Church of Christ, are two very different identities. Actually there isn't a central Church of Christ(like the Vatican is to the Catholic Church) so pretty much every church of Christ can be different, unfortunately many are liberal and some are conservative, so you can't judge one by another.

The basis behind the church of Christ is the Bible and nothing but, no human creeds or traditions. Musical insterments are a big debate and the easy way to identify a liberal one is their presence. As we have no examples of musical insterments being used in worship in the New Testament they are largely avoided, with congregational A Cappella singing being the form of musical worship. ("Eph 5:19 addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart." says to sing, not play insterments)

If you haven't guessed yet, I am a member of a church of Christ, but I'm not a church of Christer. Another way to tell a liberal vs a conservative member is their willingness to assume that title. I am not a member of any denomination, I am simply a member of the Lord's church as explained in the New Testament. I speak where the Bible speaks and remain silent where it is silent. Thus I do not believe in musical insterments being used in worship, I do not believe women should be allowed to preach (our role is elsewhere), and I believe that God left the path to Salvation in it's perfect form in the written Word and there is nothing more needed, thus human creeds and traditions are a hinderance to our ability to attain salvation. 2 Timothy 3:16-17: "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness." John 12:48 - "The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day." Mat 15:8-9 "'This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'" I'm not willing to risk my soul creeds and traditions, Mat 7:21-23 : "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.' " So I put my faith in the Bible and nothing but.

I have no denominational affilliation, I am simply a member of the Lord's church that happens to meet at a place called the University church of Christ in San Marcos, Texas.

Amen. Isn't she wonderful!?

BTW, on this forum, don't ask if you don't want an answer. :)

[pope1982]

:goodpost: Thelma :yelrotflmao: When I first saw the topic title, I could have sworn it said "Religious Affliction"!

Technically, my fiance' and I were both raised Catholic. Went through all the motions... baptism, communion, Sunday school, confession...
Haven't stepped foot in any kind of church in some years though.

Catholics, especially Roman Catholics are very strict and getting married is a huge process so we are hiring an ordained Catholic Priest to come to us, at our location to perform the ceremony.

[CoyoteQueen]

Oh Marylin, I wanted an answer, no problem!

LOL! @ Lissa, I promise not to call you a Church of Christer!!!

We have Church of Christ on every corner in Tn so I am somewhat a little familiar with the belief. As mentioned my best friend is one. She was FLABBERGASTED when I started RCIA to become Catholic. I use to live over near Henderson Tn, and their University is there.

Becky, I know what you mean!! LOL! just try joining the Catholic church when you have been married before :D I can't even participate in the sacrements until that marriage is anuled. Which I am in the process of now. Its been interesting. But Father is awesome! I have so enjoyed it.

Heather, I already know your beliefs and how your gonna convert to catholicism anyway, *wink* so dont sweat it!!!!!

[HeatherMaran]

"Heather, I already know your beliefs and how your gonna convert to catholicism anyway, *wink* so dont sweat it!!!!!"


Um yeah, that's gonna happen! No organized religion for me. If the people I hate most and who have stabbed me in the back repeatedly are all in "heaven", then how is Heaven "heaven" if I won't even like the people there? But if all of my friends and loved ones (outside of my family) are going straight to Hell, then can it really be that bad of a place? I mean, why would I want to spend eternity with those I hate in "heaven", and never see the ones I love? I know it sounds stupid, but so is the ridiculous judgement and backstabbing that's gone on at every church I've been to! If god decides to stop hating me, and I feel like believing in him again, it won't be in a church!

[Dobie]

I have a strong belief in God, but do not attend an organized church. I used to belong to a very small (30 members) church - but was told that I had lost my salvation when I divorced my husband who had been beating me up and refused to get help (said it was the medication he was on and there was nothing he could do about it - I just needed to learn not to aggravate him.) He didn't want the divorce, so he was allowed to stay and I was kicked out.

I think I made it worse when I told the elders that I thought that their sin (taking on the role of God and declaring that I had lost my salvation) - was worse than mine.

I do not believe that God would want me to stay in a relationship where I was being physically abused.

[pearl]

i'm with you there, dobie.
i go to a methodist church but my beliefs are not traditional. i believe the life of jesus was an inspiration, and that there have been several prophets that we can learn from the life of. i try to follow those teachings.
i don't literally take the immaculate conception as reality, but i also think it doesn't matter what we believe about what or how things really happened back then. how a person lives their life is more important.
my main way to live life is take care of myself, help other people, and take care of the earth.
i like a lot of things other rreligions say...buddhism, taoism, etc.
i get a lot of spiritual things from nature, my friendships, the way the whole universe works, and music; i see a lot of god there.

[Janet]

My family are members of the First Church of the Nazarene. I started there as a child. Now, I attend (and not every Sunday) a nice country church a couple miles from us...Hopewell United Methodist Church. The people there are all my neighbors and a lot of the families whose kids ride my bus. It's not very big, maybe 100 or less members, but it sure feels good to be there.

[CoyoteQueen]

aw Dobie, I'm sorry! Thats what I tell my mom........she is a charismatic holy rolling believer, and when she found out I was converting to the "great whore in the book of revelations!" she almost had a stroke. In fact I need testimony from family members as to why my previous marriage ended. Getting testimony from family members so you can become catholic when they think you should have stayed in the relationship has proven difficult in the extreme. Never mind that he settled arguments by pointing a gun in my face on more than one occasion. Had I had the sense god gave a monkey he would have done time for aggravated felony domestic assault. But its in the past now, and I wish him only blessings.
Anyway, after we split, most of my former friends and family totaly turned against me. So I told my mom, that while I would never set myself on the level of god himself, that like him when he said "these wounds I got in the house of my friends". thats me. every bad thing that has ever happened to me has been at the hand of a so called christian. I have learned that most have forgotten that christian is suppose to mean christ like.
My desire to become catholic, is that they are an extremely formal church and I believe it is a human need to have a ritual of worship. I find that there. My personal convictions of my inner soul are simply between god and myself. he knows me, the good the bad and the ugly, and amazingly enough he still sent his son to die for me. thats all I need.
Thanks for sharing Dobie. I needed that! {huggie}

[katcarasella]

I'm a Roman Catholic.

[Gina]

I'm a Roman Catholic .

[Gwen]

These kinds of threads scare me, lol. I guess I will just say that I take things from a lot of different religions and incorporate that into what I believe or not believe. There's at least one thing in each religion that I can agree with, as well as at least one thing that I don't :o

[pearl]

These kinds of threads scare me, lol. I guess I will just say that I take things from a lot of different religions and incorporate that into what I believe or not believe. There's at least one thing in each religion that I can agree with, as well as at least one thing that I don't :o

i'm kind of there too, gwen. i'm a blend! sometimes my beliefs don't make sense to other people, but only what works for me and what i can hold on to and live by is what's important.

[Ponyup]

Organized religion makes me nervous as well. I do believe in God, I do believe God sent his son to die for me. I also think however, that the bible might have been manipulated by the original translators to get the people to do what they wanted without a revolt. Because the leaders could say don't get mad at me this is coming from God, like the scripture that says to pay your taxes, don't know exactly what verse it is, but I know there is one because it was brought up in my church not too long ago.

I was raised methodist, I loved the old hymns we sang, we had wonderful singers, my grandma was one & a wonderful organist. That chuch however believed that drinking, gambling, & smoking were sins along with tattoos & multiple other things. I have come to the realization that where they got these sins was because it says that God should be #1 in your life. If you become addicted to any of the things mentioned they will take that #1 spot from God. So rather then saying these things are fine in moderation they deemed doing them at all sinful & evil. My family also have something against the catholics that I don't understand. I do not understand the catholic faith therefore i can not judge it. In fact I don't feel I can judge anyone or anything that's not my place. My current church is a missionary church, i like the music & most of the services, some of the things they preach i do not agree with, but I enjoy the fellowship there.

[CoyoteQueen]

Ponyup.......dont know if this will help but I think that after the original christians came out of the catacombs, Catholicism was the first organised church. Therefore all the protestant churches of today came from catholic originally. Thats not my opinion it is a historical fact. Naturally they had a reason for leaving or they would have stayed. I think most protestant groups have a long history of dislike for catholic and alot of misinformation. The catholics do not have a clean history either. historically they did many evil things. However there isnt a religious group that hasnt. your religion is only as nice as the peole who claim it. if your evil, then the religion you claim becomes evil as well.

[DianaB]

Organized religions are scary because we tend to follow them without checking things out for ourselves. How do I know if what I believe is correct? Go to your Bible. I believe that it is the inspired Word of God and He can speak to me through His word. The "correct church" is the one that lines up with Biblical teachings. You'll find that sometimes religions interpret things a little differently but the basics are still there:

1. Admit that you are a sinner.
"There is no one righteous, not even one......for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Romans 3:10, 23

Ask God's forgiveness and repent of your sins.
"Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved" Romans 10-13

2. Believe in Jesus (put your trust in Him) as your only hope of salvation. "For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16

Become a child of God by receiving Christ.
"To all who received Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God." John 1:12

3. Confess that Jesus is your Lord.
"If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9

So you see, whether you have music in church or don't, if you go to an organized church or a church that is freer in their worship doesn't matter, but what does matter is if I have asked Jesus to forgive my sins and invited Him into my life. That IS what's important!!!!!!

[CoyoteQueen]

great post Diana!!! can I just add.........(LOL! my pet peeve.) If you claim to be a "christian, at least attempt to act like Jesus! Jesus forgave the people who murdered him, he loved Judas who betrayed him. He hung out with a tax collector, became friends with a prostitute, he died willingly between thieves. I do realise some christians are into charitable works, and maybe go to the shelter to fix a dinner for the homeless, but when was the last time they invited the dirty lice infested homeless person into their home?

[Ponyup]

great post Diana!!! can I just add.........(LOL! my pet peeve.) If you claim to be a "christian, at least attempt to act like Jesus! Jesus forgave the people who murdered him, he loved Judas who betrayed him. He hung out with a tax collector, became friends with a prostitute, he died willingly between thieves. I do realise some christians are into charitable works, and maybe go to the shelter to fix a dinner for the homeless, but when was the last time they invited the dirty lice infested homeless person into their home?

I could not agree with this more. WE should reach out to the people who are struggling not condemn them. We should love everyone has ourselves so that they may see the love of God radiate through us.

& Coyote that you for the insight on the Catholic faith, my parents main problem is they allow drinking. When I brought up that they drank in the bible she told me they weren't drinking actual wine, now I don't know if she actually believes this or if it was just what she told a questioning child.

[katcarasella]

QUOTE=DianaB]Organized religions are scary because we tend to follow them without checking things out for ourselves. How do I know if what I believe is correct? Go to your Bible. I believe that it is the inspired Word of God and He can speak to me through His word. The "correct church" is the one that lines up with Biblical teachings. You'll find that sometimes religions interpret things a little differently but the basics are still there:

1. Admit that you are a sinner.
"There is no one righteous, not even one......for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Romans 3:10, 23

Ask God's forgiveness and repent of your sins.
"Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved" Romans 10-13

2. Believe in Jesus (put your trust in Him) as your only hope of salvation. "For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16

Become a child of God by receiving Christ.
"To all who received Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God." John 1:12

3. Confess that Jesus is your Lord.
"If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9

So you see, whether you have music in church or don't, if you go to an organized church or a church that is freer in their worship doesn't matter, but what does matter is if I have asked Jesus to forgive my sins and invited Him into my life. That IS what's important!!!!!![/QUOTE]

Diana,
:thankyou: I needed that! :hands: :goodpost:

[Janet]

Amen, Diana!

[Tiramisu]

I'm the good ole Southern Baptist, married to a Methodist, so we don't go anywhere. I watch TV on Sunday mornings for Houston Second Baptist's preacher and then Joel Olsteen @ Lakewood Church. My Dad always called me a closet worshipper because I read my Bible and worship God in private. I do witness, but don't go out of my way to do so. I do talk alot to my g-kids about having Jesus in my heart!

[goofywife]

Diana, My company had a booth at the last general assembly. I worked it. Did you go?


We attend the Assembly of God church where my whole family attends, from my Mother to my grandchildren. Our church is a very active church and there's always things going on to keep you busy. Right now I'm teaching a Sunday School class (You only have to teach for 6 weeks at a time.), I sing solos, I'm suppose to be helping in Children's church (just started), and I try to help where I'm needed. We have a great pastor and my church family feels like family to me.

I am a Spirit-filled, born again believer. I love the Lord with all of my heart and my desire is to live a life directed by Him. The Lord has been good to us. I have a family that was always brought up in church and my family life has been blessd by God. To make things short, we have the kind of family that most people would want to be a part of. I can only give the credit to God.

[Gwen]

Yotes, I was watching something the other night about the conflict between Protestants and Catholics. It was about northern Ireland, and how the conflict there has shaped the country. I honestly didn't know anything about it, it was interesting but sad.

[DianaB]

Diana, My company had a booth at the last general assembly. I worked it. Did you go?

I've never been to General Assembly, but our pastor and associate pastor were there. That's cool that your company had a booth there. I also have a friend that sings in the choir but I'm not sure if she was there last year or not.

[CoyoteQueen]

I could not agree with this more. WE should reach out to the people who are struggling not condemn them. We should love everyone has ourselves so that they may see the love of God radiate through us.

& Coyote that you for the insight on the Catholic faith, my parents main problem is they allow drinking. When I brought up that they drank in the bible she told me they weren't drinking actual wine, now I don't know if she actually believes this or if it was just what she told a questioning child.


lmao, they were drinking actual wine. In fact most european countries drink wime as a normal part of daily life. Its just we americans who are so afraid of drinking!
many people say that..........

[pearl]

i found it! this essay that has been in my mind. the minister in my church read this aloud several years ago...i think it has some good thoughts and expresses some of how i feel and believe.

http://www.humankindness.org/godletter.html

[DianaB]

i found it! this essay that has been in my mind. the minister in my church read this aloud several years ago...i think it has some good thoughts and expresses some of how i feel and believe.

http://www.humankindness.org/godletter.html

I believe that many will be deceived into thinking that they have found the "way" but the Bible tells us in Matthew 7:13-14--

13 "Enter through the narrow gate. The gate is wide and the road is wide that leads to hell, and many people enter through that gate. 14 But the gate is small and the road is narrow that leads to true life. Only a few people find that road.

This letter definitely describes a "broad" way of thinking when it comes to what to accept as far as a religion and this verse definitely says "to enter through the narrow gate".

There is no other decision that is more important than to invite Christ into your heart. Your decision, whether to accept or not to accept, will affect your life, not just your life now but your eternal life. Nothing is more important than this decision.

[Gwen]

Pearl, that's cool! I like that :)

[pearl]

Pearl, that's cool! I like that :)

yeah, it's the "message" i've gotten through my "spiritual journey."

[HeatherMaran]

Ok, Yotes, so I've been a little down lately, so I decided maybe I should go to church. I went last night...boy was that a mistake! Same superficial people. My stomach was in knots the entire bus ride over and the message just brought back the memories of how much god hates me. I tried, I'm done.

[Marilyn]

Ok, Yotes, so I've been a little down lately, so I decided maybe I should go to church. I went last night...boy was that a mistake! Same superficial people. My stomach was in knots the entire bus ride over and the message just brought back the memories of how much god hates me. I tried, I'm done.

So sorry this happened to you. God does not hate you. You just haven't found the true church, yet.

[judy]

Heather,

God does not hate you. He is always with you and always loves you. Just don't go back to that church. You'll find one when the time is right.

[Marilyn]

I believe that many will be deceived into thinking that they have found the "way" but the Bible tells us in Matthew 7:13-14--

13 "Enter through the narrow gate. The gate is wide and the road is wide that leads to hell, and many people enter through that gate. 14 But the gate is small and the road is narrow that leads to true life. Only a few people find that road.

This letter definitely describes a "broad" way of thinking when it comes to what to accept as far as a religion and this verse definitely says "to enter through the narrow gate".

There is no other decision that is more important than to invite Christ into your heart. Your decision, whether to accept or not to accept, will affect your life, not just your life now but your eternal life. Nothing is more important than this decision.

You are absolutely right on this, Diana. However, we have to do a little more than just believe. John 3:16 is not the "escape clause". We have to do the will of our Father and be obedient to Him. We have to buried with him through baptism to walk a new life, "Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."Romans 6:3-4

[judy]

Heather,

God does not hate you. He is always with you and always loves you. Just don't go back to that church. You'll find one when the time is right.

I love that letter Pearl! Thanks for sharing that.

I also have a little bit of lots of religions I believe in, but I was especially blessed with complete faith from the time I was very young. God is my best friend, he is always with me and I try to always remember to let him guide me.

I was born Jewish, so I believe that God is called God. Then I became a Buddhist for about 8 years. I don't care for organized religion so I didn't stick with Judaism. The Buddhist practice that I belonged to was also an organized religion, and they did not believe in God, but in a cosmic consciousness. They also felt that theirs was the only way to worship - something I find I cannot be a part of. There are many ways to worship and many names for God. I love Jesus, I love Mary, I don't question any of my beliefs, nor any one else's.

The only thing that I would like to have would be a community of people who feel as I do. Sometimes I need a place to bring my feelings, fears, joys, etc. to. Sept. 11th was a day like that.

I'll find a group like that some day and I'll be very happy.

[goofywife]

As long as they are teaching from the bible and about salvation it really is about finding a church that works for you. I believe that Jesus we lead you to the right church. He is one that has and internet church, as well as 15+ walk in locations.

http://www.lifechurch.tv/


Ok, Yotes, so I've been a little down lately, so I decided maybe I should go to church. I went last night...boy was that a mistake! Same superficial people. My stomach was in knots the entire bus ride over and the message just brought back the memories of how much god hates me. I tried, I'm done.

[pearl]

yeah judy i can't be a part of something that thinks it's the only way. it's like "you're not OK till you think exactly like i do."
people have to do what works for them. i think often we make God in our image, whatever we believe doesn't change the reality of whatever really is going on. we have to find our own way.
i think Jesus led a very broad and inclusive life, and that was a big part of his message.
the universe is pretty amazing, there are galaxies upon galaxies out there. who knows what is going on elsewhere.

[goofywife]

Wow, I was really bad at spelling in that post!

As long as they are teaching from the bible and about salvation it really is about finding a church that works for you. I believe that Jesus we lead you to the right church. He is one that has and internet church, as well as 15+ walk in locations.

http://www.lifechurch.tv/

[Marilyn]

Whatever we do, whatever we choose to believe, God and His Word should be our only guide. 2 Timothy 3:16 & 17, "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work." We should all be like the Bereans who were being taught by Paul and Silas in Acts 17. They searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether the things they were being taught were true.

God created us and He created His church. The only way to really know if how we are living and believing, and how we are worshiping is correct and in accordance with God's will is to read and study the "manufacturer's instructions".

What I think and what I believe does not matter to you and your salvation. What God says and what He wants is what matters.

[CoyoteQueen]

Ok, Yotes, so I've been a little down lately, so I decided maybe I should go to church. I went last night...boy was that a mistake! Same superficial people. My stomach was in knots the entire bus ride over and the message just brought back the memories of how much god hates me. I tried, I'm done.

I'm sure it wasn't Catholic!!!!! LMAO!

[judy]

yeah judy i can't be a part of something that thinks it's the only way. it's like "you're not OK till you think exactly like i do."
people have to do what works for them. i think often we make God in our image, whatever we believe doesn't change the reality of whatever really is going on. we have to find our own way.
i think Jesus led a very broad and inclusive life, and that was a big part of his message.
the universe is pretty amazing, there are galaxies upon galaxies out there. who knows what is going on elsewhere.

I like what you have to say here - It's so huge, and yet so simple. I feel that if you open yourself up and ask God to guide you, whatever happens is perfect. Sometimes it certainly doesn't feel that way, but faith is the most wonderful gift.
I am happy way down inside, and I know it's because I just follow where God takes me.

[DianaB]

..........What I think and what I believe does not matter to you and your salvation. What God says and what He wants is what matters.

Thanks, Marilyn. That's so true!

[pearl]

I like what you have to say here - It's so huge, and yet so simple. I feel that if you open yourself up and ask God to guide you, whatever happens is perfect. Sometimes it certainly doesn't feel that way, but faith is the most wonderful gift.
I am happy way down inside, and I know it's because I just follow where God takes me.

after being in some different denominations, including the born again type, i've come down to "take care of myself, help other people, and take care of the earth." that's what i do.

[CoyoteQueen]

taking this thread in a new direction!!!

Title: Faith and Death

I spole with my mom today, who as I mentioned is a charismatic type believer. If anyone wonders why I am not putting a denomination, she calles herself non denominational. So I am trying to describe her beliefs. Anyway, a friend of hers son died. He was a bit older than I am, so I am gonna say maybe 40? and he had a sudden, massive heart attack. You know, the type where no one gets to say goodbye. So the parents are believing for a miracle and are going to have a healing ceremony to raise him from the dead.
A few years ago one of my cousins sons was drowned. It was horrible because he was only about 15 months old. The same thing, they gathered everyone together and prayed over him, I wasnt there, but the way I was told, his mother was convinced there was still life even tho the Dr's had pronounced him dead. Let me just say, this is so devastating for these people. The basis of this belief is that if you have enough faith it will happen. You have to believe hard enough. If someone is in the room who dont believ strongly enough, they are asked to leave the room. Their unbelief could keep the miracle from happening. So what your left with is a grieving family who is now overwhelmed by guilt that they were unable to believe enough to raise this person from the dead.
So I asked my mom, what is wrong with this religion that you can have enough faith to raise the dead, but you dont believe in a hereafter. Of course if they are asked, they look forward to heaven and all its promises, but when it comes to putting their money where their mouth is, well they obviously are terrified of death.
Isnt the very basis of christian belief that Jesus died to save us and we get eternal life, which we have to die to claim?

I'd be interested in anyone elses thought on this..........as in, what do you think death is?

[Gwen]

I guess I believe anything is possible. Like, literally...anything really is possible. If you want to be born again, like reincarnation, you have that option. Whether it be on Earth, or on another planet galaxies and galaxies away. If you want to go to a Heaven as you see it, you do.

I think that if you see others in the after-life, that they are an image of your choosing. For example, if your grandmum passed away and you died years and years later and wanted to see her, you would see her as YOU remember her. But she might see herself as she was happiest. Which could be 16 years old or something. But she would see you as she remembered you as well.

I believe after-life is what you want it to be, and in continuous and ever changing, not anything set in stone, like..you go here, you do this. I believe it's literally different for everyone and the possibilities are endless.

I don't believe in a hell. But I do believe those possibilities aren't as readily available to someone that was really evil in life. Or someone who abused life. I believe they are limited in the expansion of their after-life due to those choices. So I guess I believe our choices govern what we are capable of doing in our after-life.

If any of that made any sense at all, lol.

[Marilyn]

Personally, I believe what the apostle Paul said in his letter to the church a Phillippi in Philippians 1:21-24, "For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I live on in the flesh, this will mean fruit from my labor; yet what I shall choose I cannot tell. For I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ which is far better. Nonetheless to remain in the flesh is more needful for you."

Those around us need us and we have a desire to be here to help them and to see how things that we have begun will turn out, however, death is not something to be feared for those who believe and are faithful to God.

[DianaB]

...........I'd be interested in anyone elses thought on this..........as in, what do you think death is?

The Bible talks about to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, but this promise is only for those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and have accepted Him as their Savior.

When a person accepts Christ into their heart as their Savior their name is written in the Book of Life. When a person dies that has their name in there they are immediately escorted into the presence of God to live in heaven for eternity. The Bible tells us that Heaven is a wonderful place and that Jesus is there preparing it for us at this time.

For a person who has not accepted Christ and their name is not in the Book of Life, they are in dire trouble. The Bible speaks of a place of torment, or hell. In Luke 16:19-31, there is a story of a rich man and Lazuras that you need to look up. In it the rich man said 27 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

[DianaB]

Sorry, but I hit the submit button before I was through!!!

When you die there are NO second chances, NO reincarnation. From the moment you take your last breath it has already been decided on where you will go, depending on your relationship with God. In one of my earlier posts I've already given you the basics on how to accept Christ into your heart. As Marilyn pointed out, the Bible is our handbook, our guide to life. And as I pointed out before there is NEVER a decision that is more important.

I know where I'm going when I die and, no, I'm not afraid because I know that my name is written in the Book of Life and I will live eternally with Jesus and my loved ones who have also accepted Christ as their Savior.

[Marilyn]

For a good example of what is necessary to feel certain of your future and your standing with God upon your death, read Acts 8:26-40. The eunich did not have the completed Bible, the entire Word of God, so he needed Phillip to explain to him about Jesus and what he needed to do to be saved. We have God's Word, and we can read it for ourselves. We have Acts 8 and other scriptures to refer to. We are so blessed that the way of salvation has been given to us, and that we live in a society with the freedom to read and study. Bibles are available to us everywhere, even at Walmart, so we will have no excuse when we stand before the Lord someday.

Diana, explains it very well. When we die, it's all over. There is no more second chance, and if we have not lived as God wishes, we cannot say we did not know what we needed to do. There is a place of torment for those who have not lived as they should. It is my sincere prayer that we all travel the narrow road.

[CoyoteQueen]

hhmm, I guess I have to disagree slightly, I believe in preordination. I think your life is planned from the start and its known since before the foundations of the earth what your choices will be thus your more destined than it being by your good works. (read Ephesians 14-13) I take quite literally that our good works are as "filthy rags" (menstruel clothes, and in that time untouchable) simply because we are never, no matter what we do going to be able to "earn" the blood of Christ. His was the supreme sacrifice, as he was/is diety and nothing you or I can do as in works can earn us eternal life. It is a gift, I believe freely given and only our pride makes us not want to be beholden.

However, I guess that wasnt really the question I was trying to ask! LOL! Sorry I wasnt plain. I wanted to know, if you believe you have the faith to die? Would you grasp at straws to preserve this earthly life if you truly believed you have an wonderful hereafter waiting for you? If you really believe should you not be eager to die?

[pearl]

this is such a fascinating thread! i love hearing people's points of view.
i can relate to the "if you don't believe enough leave" coyote. the thing i noticed about the exposure i had to the born again type rreligion was that if things weren't working for you it was your fault. you weren't good enough. i thought that was very damaging.

i think there is a life after death, but it's not a one shot deal. i think things are a continuum. a process and progress. who knows what it is next. i don't believe in hell. there are people who are so genetically deficient they don't have judgement of right and wrong or ability to control it.

coyote, i would think that the belief that there is paradise waiting might spur a person on to die, but i also think that belief also would have a part that if you hurried your death you might effect your paradise. because there is a "plan" for your life and it's up to God to decide when you die.
i don't personally believe that at all, but i think other people may see it that way.

[judy]

I believe that, when I die, God will take care of me, just as he has always done.

I like to believe in heaven, and that I will see everyone there who has died before me. I also believe in reincarnation, I think, until we reach the point where we get it right. I also believe that once we do get it right, we have to come back and help others. I could be right or I could be wrong, but I do know that, no matter what does happen after I die, I have to follow his guidance while I'm alive.

Like I said in another post, I don't question my beliefs too much. I just always feel God's presence and try to always do what he wants me to do. I love God and have complete faith in him.

[judy]

Coyote Queen,

My daughter converted to Catholicism when she married. She loves it! I wish you all the happiness she has found.

[DianaB]

hhmm, I guess I have to disagree slightly, I believe in preordination. I think your life is planned from the start and its known since before the foundations of the earth what your choices will be thus your more destined than it being by your good works. (read Ephesians 14-13).......

Ok, (deep breath) to address the part about predestination.......The scripture that you posted includes a few others with it. Ephesians 1:11-14 11In him we were also chosen,[e] having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.

This is a very difficult passage to understand but here goes and I'm going to copy the study notes from my Bible on this because I think that it explains it very well.

"Concerning election (being chosen) and predestination, we might use the analogy of a great ship on its way to heaven. The ship (the church) is chosen by God to be His very own vessel. Christ is the Captain and Pilot of this ship. All who desire to be a part of this elect ship and its Captain can do so through a living faith in Christ, by which they come on board the ship. As long as they are on the ship, in company with the ship's Captain, they are among the elect. If they choose to abandon the ship and Captain, they cease to be part of the elect. Election is always only in union with the Captain and his ship. Predestination tells us about the ship's destination and what God has prepared for those remaining on it. God invites everyone to come aboard the elect ship through faith in Jesus Christ."

[DianaB]

.......... I take quite literally that our good works are as "filthy rags" (menstruel clothes, and in that time untouchable) simply because we are never, no matter what we do going to be able to "earn" the blood of Christ. His was the supreme sacrifice, as he was/is diety and nothing you or I can do as in works can earn us eternal life. It is a gift, I believe freely given and only our pride makes us not want to be beholden.........

In Isaiah 64:6 it says "6But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away." If we go back and look at the whole chapter you'll see that God is responding to Isaiah's prayer about the rebellious nation of Israel. He wasn't recognizing their worship or their works done for Him because of the way they were living their lives.

Matthew 5:16 says "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." So my good works are important but I have to let the light of Jesus shine. The glory for these good works isn't for me but to glorify Jesus, otherwise what I've done is nothing.

Now we do not "earn" the blood of Christ. It is a gift. Ephesians 2:8-9 says "8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast." Works does not save me but faith does!

I'm a human and I make mistakes but when I asked Jesus into my heart He covered me with His blood and made me His child. Now when the Heavenly Father looks at me it is through the precious blood of Jesus and it's like He's looking at me with rose-colored glasses and He sees me as perfect. Of course, I will never be perfect and I do make mistakes in my life but as long as I'm trying my best to follow what the Bible says and I have Jesus in my heart then I know that someday I will be with Him in Heaven.

[DianaB]

.........However, I guess that wasnt really the question I was trying to ask! LOL! Sorry I wasnt plain. I wanted to know, if you believe you have the faith to die? Would you grasp at straws to preserve this earthly life if you truly believed you have an wonderful hereafter waiting for you? If you really believe should you not be eager to die?

I'm sorry to post so many times but you had several things in your post to address, Coyote. I hope that I'm not boring you.

Do I have the faith to die? Let me put it this way, Coyote, if you and I were in an extremely dangerous spot and only one of us could make it out alive then I would stay behind because I know where I'm going to spend eternity. No doubts. I would hope that by my death that you would have time to come and know Jesus as your Savior.

Would I grasp at straws to preserve this earthly life if you truly believed you have a wonderful hereafter waiting for you? If I were to get cancer or something like that it would definitely depend on how advanced the disease was for me to make a decision like that. I don't know that I would "grasp for straws" for I know that I'm headed for a better place. I would take some treatments but I wouldn't go overboard and try everything just to stay alive. I do have a wonderful family and several grandchildren that I would love to see grow and become adults. Plus I have a much younger daughter that I want to see happily married and her children. I defintely wouldn't be "desperate" to stay alive though.

If you really believe should you not be eager to die? No, not eager to die. Each of us has a different circle of friends in our life, like I bet you don't have contact with anyone else in my community, and I am to be the bearer of God's love and His plan of salvation to those that are around me. If I'm eager to die then I lose the time that I have to tell those around me about God. I have a work to do and when I'm finished (and that's not up to me to decide) then God will call me home.

[CoyoteQueen]

coyote, i would think that the belief that there is paradise waiting might spur a person on to die, but i also think that belief also would have a part that if you hurried your death you might effect your paradise. because there is a "plan" for your life and it's up to God to decide when you die.
i don't personally believe that at all, but i think other people may see it that way.

I am also finding this an interesting thread!and thats an excellent point Pearl. I dont think we should attempt to hasten our deaths! I just am heart broken for my family members who actually try to raise their dead. I think your religious beliefs should give you peace in death. I dont think they have that.

I have spent years reading different translations of the bible, different theologies from different organized religions and even pagan beliefs and theorys. The thing I have noticed is its in the details. Once you scrape all the top layers off, most forms of religion are simply saying the same thing. It is many faceted, for sure. I think we each get hung up on our little details!

Judy, thanks for your well wishes. I do love attending the Catholic church. Their ceremonies are unbelievably beautiful. I personally have spent most of my life reading the bible and have very decided convictions and personal beliefs. I dont feel that being Catholic in any way takes away from my personal beliefs. I have found that Catholicism has been a lovely way to worship. A place for me to join in with other people and enjoy a community of people who have the desire to live good and wholesome lives. I am further comforted by the fact that Catholicism has been around since the very early days of christianity. They are not following a new vision, but rather a tradition of beliefs. I dont like fly by night religions. So, I would have to say that this church fits me nicely!


I'm sorry to post so many times but you had several things in your post to address, Coyote. I hope that I'm not boring you.
[
no problem!

Do I have the faith to die? Let me put it this way, Coyote, if you and I were in an extremely dangerous spot and only one of us could make it out alive then I would stay behind because I know where I'm going to spend eternity. No doubts. I would hope that by my death that you would have time to come and know Jesus as your Savior.

what a sweet offer, god forbid we are ever in that situation but I feel pretty confident in my destiny and fate! so the sacrifice wouldnt be necesary! thanks tho!

Would I grasp at straws to preserve this earthly life if you truly believed you have a wonderful hereafter waiting for you? If I were to get cancer or something like that it would definitely depend on how advanced the disease was for me to make a decision like that. I don't know that I would "grasp for straws" for I know that I'm headed for a better place. I would take some treatments but I wouldn't go overboard and try everything just to stay alive. I do have a wonderful family and several grandchildren that I would love to see grow and become adults. Plus I have a much younger daughter that I want to see happily married and her children. I defintely wouldn't be "desperate" to stay alive though.

If you really believe should you not be eager to die? No, not eager to die. Each of us has a different circle of friends in our life, like I bet you don't have contact with anyone else in my community, and I am to be the bearer of God's love and His plan of salvation to those that are around me. If I'm eager to die then I lose the time that I have to tell those around me about God. I have a work to do and when I'm finished (and that's not up to me to decide) then God will call me home.

as I shared above, I am still trying to drive home the point that these 2 stories I shared are of grieving families who are trying to raise the dead, yet claim to believe their children are "sleeping in Jesus" which IMO is a bit different than going to the Dr for some routine health care!

and now I just want to add, for everyone posting on this thread. Please do not interpret my comments as argumentative. Obviously religion like politics are a very controversal topic. I certainly am not trying to convince anyone to believe like me, and as I have spent years figuring my own path, I am not looking to convert. I am simply fascinated by everyones beliefs.

[DianaB]

I hope that in no way what I have to say is being construed as argumentative. My prayer is that what I have said is presented in a very loving way.

To address the issue of raising a person from the dead.......I DO believe in miracles and I believe that there are still miracles done today. When a miracle is performed then the name of Jesus is lifted up and He is praised. There is no way that man should get the credit for the mracle. No one should feel comdemned. That's not God's way. Why He chooses to answer one prayer and not another I don't have an answer for but I know that God's ways are so above man's ways. He can see the whole picture where we only see a small part. If I have a prayer answered one time but not the next, did I have more faith in one prayer? No, I think that God in His wisdom decides because He knows so much more than I do.

This is not about being raised from the dead but this is a miracle that I heard about........My aunt is an international prayer partner and is friends with a woman named Beth Alvez (I'm not sure about the spelling). Beth was in another country when a woman came to her to pray for her hand which had lost some fingers and was hurting alot. Beth prayed for the woman's pain and went about her day. The next morning she was wakened by a woman outside of her room shouting and carrying on so she went out to see what was going on. It was the woman that she had prayed for and when she looked at the hand......all of the fingers were on it!! That wasn't what she had prayed for at all! Beth took no credit for this but the glory was for God. She went to her knees in prayer at the awesomeness of God and what He had done! Can you imagine seeing such a miracle? We have missionaries that come to our church and there are so many miracles!

[CoyoteQueen]

miracles do still happen obviously. anyone who is barren only has to look at their fellow sisters and know that the mere fact that a woman can concieve and give birth is the biggest and most underrated miracle ever.

however, while I do believe in miracles, I havent in my lifetime seen anyone raised from the dead or heard of it happening. And like Thomas, I would have had to know the individuals you speak of to believe her fingers came back. Hearing the testimony would no way come close to convincing me, in fact, photographic evidence wouldnt even cut it for me!!!! Sadly we have all seen the way things are exploited for both attention and money and it does seem many like to use God for personal gain.