Family! Grrr!
 

I love my family, but sometimes....... :mad:

We have a farm in Oklahoma with mineral rights, so that means MONEY is involved. My two cousins and I overlooked an important document that came in the mail in November to all 3 of us. We get TONS of mail from Oklahoma, from companies wanting to buy our farm and our mineral rights - and I do mean TONS of it. I usually just toss it into a pile and look at it from time to time.

Well an important letter came to me, and also came to my other 2 cousins. None of us looked at it and it turned out to be something important. Now, my two cousins (who did not get the letter because the farm correspondence goes to their sister instead of them, and SHE didn't look at the letter) are going to see our attorney in Oklahoma to see if everything can be straightened out.

Yes, I feel horrible for not looking at the letter, but in my defense it came when my mom was in the hospital, Gary was sick and I was at my wits end with school and everything else. But in reality, even if I'd had enough time, I might not have looked at the letter in a timely manner.

So, yesterday and today all of us have gotten nasty emails from the two cousins who now feel they have to "save" everything and everyone. And it's not like we are actually losing much of anything - it might mean that we could possibly, at some time in the future, lose a little bit of money.

Today, I had had enough and I called my cousin (Joyce) out on her "haughty" and "holier than thou" email messages. We've had a few back and forth (ahem) "conversations" on email this evening. I don't think she will back down and I know I won't back down. She is treating us like imbeciles and I just don't like it. I freely admit I screwed up by not looking at the letter - but treating me like I'm stupid is not going to help the matter.

THEN she had the nerve to say no one ever helps with expenses related to the farm and mineral rights business. I'm like, OH NO YOU DIDN'T JUST SAY THAT!!! I am very close to her younger sister (Emma) and I tell Emma all the time that I will help with any expenses she incurs. So today Joyce complains that she has incurred expenses in the past and no one offered to help and she is reluctant to ask for reimbursement. OH NO YOU DIDN'T JUST SAY THAT!!! I'M TALENTED BUT I CANNOT READ YOUR MIND.

Anyway, I am just venting. We will all be fine, we do love each other, and I know this is to be expected when family and money is involved. Thanks for listening.

Yes, how nice of $$$$$ to get involved in family :(

I'm sure she's just stressed out and after everything is finish with she will calm down and get off her high horse.

Big Cyber Hug XOXO

Gayle, I get that same crap mail from our mineral rights. I NEVER open it, either! Who could open all that junk? Like you said, it's most always somebody that wants to buy it from you:rolleyes: I don't know why some people are just so rude. She should have been glad to help you out instead of complaining. I'm glad you said something back to her! Sometimes enough is enough!!

Thanks Jessica, I needed a hug. And thank you Betsi, I needed to hear that someone else does the exact same thing with all that mail!

When it's family and money.....it's never as good as it should be. How can they be so crappy when they didn't read the mail either?

Well to be fair, they didn't receive the letter (which came in November) until this week. Their mineral rights are in a family trust, and all the correspondence goes to their older sister. She is the one that didn't read the letter - or read it and didn't think it was important - I don't know which one. The letter also went to a third cousin and I have no idea whether or not he read the letter and did nothing, or didn't read the letter at all like me.

It's still pissing me off this morning and I usually don't hold a grudge. The interesting thing is that my daughter called me yesterday to ask what was wrong with Joyce (the one being very nasty now about all this). My daughter picked up on the nasty condescending tone in the emails, even before I did. So, I don't think it is just me feeling attacked. Actually, I was picking up that I was being chastised publicly - but I was just ignoring it. LOL!

Sorry that you're dealing with this. The truth is that she probably would have done the same thing if the letter had come to her.

I don't understand how you can lose money by overlooking a letter about your mineral rights. Do you have your mineral rights leased out?

We had a company that came through a few years ago and leased all around us so eventually we leased as well. They fizzled out before they actually got to our property and Glen was glad because they made these awful roads right in the middle of the fields. They didn't get enough natural gas in our area to hardly make it worth doing......however Glen has an aunt that lives south of town that makes some really good money on some wells she has. I think that Glen signed a contract where he can get his mineral rights back eventually.

I know......I ask too many questions and you don't have to answer them. Gayle, you always handle everything so nicely and I know that you'll handle your family in the same way.

Hi Diana, thanks for the support. Yes, we have our land leased for drilling. It is a 3 year lease. We didn't sell our mineral rights or land, only leased them so they still belong to us.

The letter was a notice of a hearing to be held in December. The hearing was for the oil company to ask the Oklahoma corporation commission to allow the to allow them to be able to drill a different way than was specified in our lease. The request was approved by the corporation commission, so that is an issue.

Also at issue was the amount of money we will get IF they drill a well on our farm and IF it produces gas or oil. Our share of the money (IF the well is drilled and produces) is lower in the papers from the hearing than what is specified in our lease with them. When we didn't read the letter we got in November, we didn't know about the hearing, so we couldn't go an protest or have our attorney go and protest these changes.

Now, in reviewing the original notice we got back in Nov., we discover that lowering our percentage of money was not listed among the things in the original letter that they were going to ask for. That is the only thing that could possibly cost us money in the future - IF they drill a producing well in the next 2 1/2 years. Since we know about it now, but it was NOT listed in the notification letter (the one we didn't read), our attorney can probably get that part taken out. Of course though, we will have to pay our attorney to do that - so this snafu will cost us some money, either way. There are 7 of us cousins who own the land/mineral rights together, so it won't cost any ONE of us very much.

The other part of the oil company's request to the corporation commission won't cost us any money and I really don't understand that part of it anyway. It has to do with our lease specification that said they can only drill to a certain depth (e.g. 10,000 feet) but they want to be able to drill to other depths, e.g., 14,000 feet (and that was granted by the corporation commission). I don't understand why we had that restriction in our lease and so I don't know the implications of removing it - but I do know that that part is not what will cost us money in the long run.

Even your post got too confusing to read!!! I would not have read that letter either~

Can you arrange to have your mail sent to Miss Perfect Joyce? That would let you off the hook from now on, and she can handle it all perfecly.

Yes. That is what needs to happen Judy. The interesting thing is that Ms. Joyce has just retired (Dec. 31) from a very demanding job and has had no time for years and years. Lol! Now she has time to take care of all of us!!

heehee!!!

Gayle, have your lawyer find out the answers for you. These are things that need to be clarified before they ever start drilling on your property.

Oil and gas companies can be snakes......they'll tell you one thing but do another. I know that when oil and gas was big up here you had to be careful who you leased to because of the dishonesty that went on.

I wouldn't think that they could change the amount that they leased it for or the amount that they would owe you if they had a well on you.....but I would ask your lawyer about it.

I hope you get good news.......and that your cousin, well.......quits being a troublemaker!!!!

I feel so lucky!!!! I've never known anyone with mineral rights before! lol I'm so out in the woods that to be honest, I never even heard of it.

I know!!!:D

Y'all are so funny!!

Yes, you are funny.

Mineral rights and surface rights did not used to be separate, but after oil/gas was discovered, maybe in the 50's (I'm not sure when) they became separate. Those of us who owned land before they became separate, own both the surface and mineral rights. Now, if you buy land or property, 99% of the time you only buy the surface rights and someone else (perhaps the state, or the original land owner, owns the mineral rights). You can sell your surface rights, but not your mineral rights or visa versa.

The ONLY thing mineral rights mean is that the person owning them has the POSSIBILITY of getting some money from an oil/gas company leasing the mineral rights so they can drill a well and extract the oil/gas. The mineral rights owner (me, Betsi, and Diana) get money from the lease and then IF the company drills a well and IF the well produces, then then the owner of the mineral rights (me Betsi Diana) will get a percentage of the profits from the oil/gas extraction and sale. I know some people who are extraordinarily rich from oil/gas, but most of us have had mineral rights all our lives and have little to nothing to show for it.

Here is some information about mineral and surface rights:

In most countries of the world all mineral resources belong to the government. This includes all valuable rocks, minerals, oil or gas found on or within the Earth. Organizations or individuals in those countries can not legally extract and sell any mineral commodity without first obtaining an authorization from the government.

In the United States and a few other countries, ownership of mineral resources was originally granted to the individuals or organizations that owned the surface. These property owners had both "surface rights" and "mineral rights".

Sometimes an oil/gas company does not want to purchase a property because they are uncertain of the type, amount or quality of minerals that exist there. In these situations the company will lease the mineral rights or a portion of those rights.

A lease is an agreement that gives the mining company the right to enter the property, conduct tests and determine if suitable minerals exist there. To acquire this right the company will pay the property owner an amount of money when the lease is signed (usually about 3 years). This payment reserves the property for the company for a specific duration of time. If the company finds suitable minerals it may proceed to extract them. If the company does not commence production before the lease expires then all rights to the property and the minerals return to the owner.

When minerals are produced from a leased property the owner is usually paid a share of the production income. This money is known as a "royalty payment". The amount of the royalty payment is specified in the lease agreement. It can be a fixed amount per ton of minerals produced or a percentage of the production value.

Yep, I inherited some from my dad which has been in the family forever. The shares have been divided so many times through our big family, that it's not much. Mike inherited some from his dad, too. All of it total is about 500. on a good month, lol! There are lots of gas wells in our area. We call it mailbox money:p

Betsi, i have a gas well in Texas inherited from my step-dad (he adopted me) and I have no idea how many acres it is or amongst how many it is divided, but my check is about $20 PER YEAR!! LOL! Can you believe that!!!

Wow...that was really interesting. I honestly had no idea.

LOL, I have one like that Gayle! It takes forever for it to build up enough for the gas company to send a check:rolleyes:

When you buy property you own everything that's under it......that's your "mineral rights" unless it's been sold or rented out. If so then it will affect the price of the property.......without mineral rights would be cheaper. You would definitely know if you didn't have mineral rights because it would be pointed out before your purchase.

Sorry, I didn't see your post explaining all of this before I posted. You did a nice job explaining.

Actually here most people own their mineral rights. It's just been lately that a lot of people leased their rights and it really fizzled for most. I'm not even sure if we have an oil and gas company left doing anything much. I imagine that things are a lot different in Oklahoma and Texas where there is lots of oil. I'm sure that mineral rights have been sold or leased for years which is why you're receiving checks.

Ms Joyce and her sister Emma, were supposed to meet with the attorney today, but do you think they have let me know the outcome. NOOOOOOOOOO! :mad:

Oops! I spoke too soon. Just got an email from the "sisters". Here's the jist:

What this whole deal was about was that this section of land has not had the drilling spacing specified by the corporation commission, ie, 640 acres and the depth of drilling that will be allowed. This has to be done by the drilling company before they start the actual drilling of a new well (I had no idea that this had to be done in this fashion). Also, the attorney said that nothing that they could do at the cooperation commission could ever supersede what we had on the lease agreement.

So, in other words, this was a big TOO DOO about NOTHING!!! I think I am more ticked than ever now - I was told that my not looking at the letter we got in November would cost us THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS NOW AND POTENTIALLY THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS LATER. Um, excuse me, but the only money we are out is the $200 I sent to them for their travel (Joyce drove all the way from Santa Fe, NM to meet with the attorney) and now, the attorney's fees. It's now a little humorous that THEY are the ones that have cost us money - NOT ME!!! :D

And one more thing. This is a quote sent to our attorney via email last week by Joyce: "Apparently, none of these individuals [this would be me, and my two other cousins - NOT Joyce, of course] realized that the document might need legal review or family discussion. In my estimation such documents should always receive Mr. Graft's review, to assure no threat to the standing lease" I feel that this statement screams, "We (me and my other two cousins) are stupid and Joyce is brilliant" I really didn't appreciate that sentiment being communicated to our attorney.

Oh well, you would think I might get an apology, but not yet...... :o

Well I would be huffing and puffing if it was my case.

I do hope they apologize that was just plain rude of her.

You must have a lot of self control Gayle. I'm doing much much better, but there was a time I would have either been on the phone or sending off an email letting her know how it made me feel. I love your restraint!

LOL! Janet, I already did that. Last week I told her straight out that I didn't like the tone of her emails, that I didn't appreciate her characterizing us (who received the letter) as incompetent and stupid. She tried to say that wasn't her intention, but yes, it was. She clearly made it known in a haughty way that she was the only one who could think well enough to KNOW this document needed legal attention and the rest of us did not (which of course it turned out that it didn't need attention at all).

Oh well, it's OK, I will never receive an apology but she will kiss up to me the next time I see her. :D

You could always send her some chapstick.....LOLOL

:sidesplit: Good one!!!

Well, you probably don't have to worry about hearing from her for some time!!!

I'm glad that you found out that there wasn't a problem though. You probably could have talked over the phone with your lawyer, for a lot less money, and found out the same thing!!

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES!!!!! You are spot-on, Diana. If they had just called and talked to the lawyer, all this angst could have been avoided. ARGHHHH!! :mad:

She really made a fool of herself! I bet the lawyer had no problem seeing that she had no clue what was going on. I have gotten letters that say basically the same thing, and there is really nothing to do about anything.

I think it should be pointed out to her that she could have just talked to the lawyer over the phone and saved her some time and everyone else money. How rude of her to make such a big fuss.

Yep, that is true. I'm just giving her the silent treatment right now. :D

That's probably best!!

She's probably happy about that... :) Better than getting reamed...LOL

If you wanted to really be mean, you could tell her that since she could have and should have done all of this by phone,you are taking back the trip money you gave her!

Ooooh good one Judy!