Welcome newbies, and my .02

[NicoleMarcelle]

[in response to Tink's thread about canada that got off topic...]
Welcome to a wonderful forum!!!




I am probably misunderstanding much of what is going on... but i don't see how this all spiraled out...

religion and politics are by definition controversial and people are bound to disagree... so as Tink said before we should just agree to disagree if those topics are going to be brought up. If anyone wants their opinions to be respected, then they should respect everyone elses, we shouldn't feel like we are being endoctrinated... i for one don't fit the "standard" of the site, i am 21, jewish, hispanic... but that never really made me feel unwelcome at all... i am feeling a little bit that way now, even though i've had a great relationship with the members here up until today... i realize, that as someone stated above most here are conservative and older and whatnot, but that shouldn't mean that we can't get along... if we want to talk about politics and religion, then so be it, but remember that people are going to have a different view than you do... after all we're human, but also remember, we learn from one another, and what you believe, and what i believe may be in conflict with one another, but that doesn't make either you or i less of a person, i have thoroughly enjoyed the forum, and the friendships i've made... and i'd love to get to know you all better, senior or newbie... have a wonderful day!!

I gave this a great deal of thought last night and I wanted to apologize to everyone if any of us newbies upset the harmony on this forum. Like I said in my other response, I can understand where ya'll would feel that way because I have a forum that I feel that way about as well. So I can see where ya'll were coming from.

I can understand both sides really. From ya'lls perspective, we just kind of blew in here all at once and I could see how it could be overwhelming or seem clichy. And from our side, we were just kind of confused as to what was acceptable and what wasn't as some things seemed to be allowed in certain situations and not others depending on who was doing it.

Again, I'm really sorry and thank you Nicole for making this thread. I think that was really sweet.

[AngieDoogles]

Well said Nicole. Even out of the "senior members" there are differences in religion and politics and we've never had a problem before.

By the way, I have enjoyed having you around lately and I love reading your posts. I look forward to getting to know you better!

[NicoleMarcelle]

Originally Posted by AngieDoogles

Well said Nicole. Even out of the "senior members" there are differences in religion and politics and we've never had a problem before.

By the way, I have enjoyed having you around lately and I love reading your posts. I look forward to getting to know you better!

thanks Angie... i enjoy reading your posts as well, and i love the feel of a close knit community that we have here, i'm a newbie too... but never really felt like a newbie i love coming on here, and knowing that i can have the support of these wonderful ladies when i need it... plus you all are just too funny

[AngieDoogles]

Originally Posted by NicoleMarcelle

thanks Angie... i enjoy reading your posts as well, and i love the feel of a close knit community that we have here, i'm a newbie too... but never really felt like a newbie i love coming on here, and knowing that i can have the support of these wonderful ladies when i need it... plus you all are just too funny

Hahaha, you have NO idea! Maybe we should start a "best of 4wt" thread so that you could catch up on all our most memorable posts!

[NicoleMarcelle]

Originally Posted by AngieDoogles

Hahaha, you have NO idea! Maybe we should start a "best of 4wt" thread so that you could catch up on all our most memorable posts!

LOL sounds like a good idea

[Dobie]

Originally Posted by Gwen

I gave this a great deal of thought last night and I wanted to apologize to everyone if any of us newbies upset the harmony on this forum. Like I said in my other response, I can understand where ya'll would feel that way because I have a forum that I feel that way about as well. So I can see where ya'll were coming from.

:

We're on the same wavelength Gwen! I was thinking last night about how up and arms we would be if a bunch of new people came over to PM and told us how to run the place.

Sorry if we have caused and uproar - I like this forum and am looking forward to getting to know everyone better.

ok, I have been really busy the last few days, and just now getting on. I brought the new group, and I also emailed the admin and asked if it was a problem. I do know the new group personally and have to say to the old group, your really missing out, these are a great group of ladies. However if you dont give yourself a chance to know them, thats on you. I never riduculed anyones religion and even thanked Diane "bless her soul" for offering to die for me! I got a great kick out of telling my friends that one! Nor am I po'd that Kat had an issue with where I put the thread. I simply wasnt trying to talk about the book as a book but about the controversy. So IMO it wasnt a book topic. Furthermore I was simply shocked to read that some of the biggest "Bible Quoters" on here had read them. Imagine!!! So I was curious how they reconciled that?
Of course we are going to talk politics, its an election year. Now why is there a problem if a new person talks politics and no problem when Marylin does? She after all had a thread about going to some function and becoming a delegate?
Anyway, I am sorry that this forum wasnt a good match for all of us. You wont see me back on here. I hope you ladies have a lovely life and enjoy your little section of cyber space.

[Marilyn]

Coyote, we don't mind new members, we really, really don't. We encourage them and want to learn from them and about them. Y'all came on here all at once and were very enthusiastic. We can understand that. You had found a cool new place where you could easily communicate with each other. Where the problems began was when we tried to be friendly and post in some of your threads, and were basically ignored. Or if not ignored, comments were made that appeared to be making fun of our posts. We tried to be understanding. Most of us just ignored threads that we did not feel comfortable reading or posting in which is common practice on here. There are threads posted by "senior members" that I have not posted in because for some reason I was uncomfortable with it.

Often, its not what controvercial subject is being discussed, it is the tone of the discussion that may be the problem. We can debate all we want, and sometimes become passionate about the subject, but when cutting or hurtful things are said, then there is a problem. Sometimes we may get a little preachy, especially when discussing religion. Some of us have very strong fundamental feelings on that subject, and please understand, if we seem to be critical and judgmental it is only because we care deeply about others and have only the purest of motives for what we say. It's hard to express the love that we feel in this text on screen form of communication.

I'm getting long winded here, and was taking a short break here at work. I hope you get the drift of what I'm trying to say.

If you feel the need to move on, then we wish you the best. If you want to stay and become a part of this community, we will be as friendly to you as you are to us. With very best regards, Marilyn

[Janet]

Originally Posted by Dobie

We're on the same wavelength Gwen! I was thinking last night about how up and arms we would be if a bunch of new people came over to PM and told us how to run the place.

Sorry if we have caused and uproar - I like this forum and am looking forward to getting to know everyone better.

You're a keeper Dobie...we'd love for you to stay!

Ok, I'm going to give my 2 cents here. I don't know what the other topic was that got out of hand, I've been busy and haven't been on much. Please understand that I mean absolutely no disrespect to anyone or their personal beliefs. I simply want to offer my view, which is much much different than anyone here.

A while back, there was a topic about what your religious beliefs were. I hesitated in responding because I could tell that my beliefs are WAY different than anyone here. When I did respond, I kept my response muted. But here goes. I used to be a "Christian". I went to church [willingly] for 7 years of my life. I was "born again". I taught Sunday school, tithed, I even taught at a Christian School. I read my Bible every night. I said my prayers. I would bend over backwards to help anyone that needed, even if I didn't like them. I tried my hardest to live how "God" wanted me to. What I got in return? A big ole' knife in my back! I was playing mom to my friends two kids who were 6 weeks and 6 years at the time. Some chicks FIL was in the hospital and she was alone. I gathered up the kids at 9 at night and went on my way to be with the chick (whom I personally couldn't stand). I did stuff like that all the time. A few weeks later, I was in the hospital having emergency surgery on Easter. Of all the people at my church of over a thousand people, many of whom I helped [I had been there since there was 11 people in the church], can you guess how many of them showed up to be with me when I was scared out of my mind? How many of them called to see how I was doing after I got out? Did I need anything? NOT A SINGLE ONE. I find that disgusting. And that's just my issues with "people". I also have issues with "God". If there even is a god, he has totally let me down, many times. Not on little things. The first I can remember is when I was a teenager. My Bassett Hound {who was supposed to be fixed} suddenly had 13 puppies. She killed 6 the first night, but I had taken a liking to the runt who wasn't eating. I called my best friend over to spend the night and made her pray that Rumbo would be okay. I prayed too. I woke up the next morning to a dead Rumbo. A few years later, my other best friend, Jerimee, was making some not so good choices. I prayed that "God" would help him make better choices and straighten out. Jerimee was then killed in a car accident. So, if I ever say that I will pray for you...don't be flattered, its a curse. Those are only a few of my experiences. Seven years ago, I quit. I decided that this church crap wasn't for me. I'm not a hypocrite and I didn't fit in with the rest of the church. I finished out my commitment to my Sunday School class, then told them I wouldn't be coming to church anymore. If the knives in my back weren't bad enough already, I found it even more insulting that since I left the church that I had been involved with since it first started, that I thought I made some good friends at...not once has a single person ever even bothered to call to see if I'm still alive. I think that just confirms my decision to get the hell out of there.

So that's part of my background. I went through a period of totally hating God and anyone that claimed to be a Christian. I have since gotten over that. I am a good person, better than most Christians I know. I'm not fake. I do good things for others because I truly want to, and not because I want someone to see that I contributed to the tithe bucket. I do things for others that no one ever sees or even knows about. I don't care...I'm not looking for recognition. I'm happier that way. My parents still beg me to go back to church, offering to buy me things if I will. It doesn't seem to bother them when I say that my seven years of church were the most depressing seven years of my life. I seriously wanted to kill myself. I live my life how I see fit. I'm honest, hardworking, I have integrity, respectful (except in Costco, Walmart or parking lots)...I live my life how I THOUGHT Christians were supposed to live. But I also do things that are big "No-no's" according to some...I see nothing wrong with sex before marriage, and I enjoy it, I will drink on occasion, sometimes to the point of getting fall out drunk, I enjoy that too. I don't do either in excess. There's probably other things I do too, but never in excess. That's just me. I can't blame or credit "God" for who I have made myself. I don't know if there is a god or not, but if there is, then I think he's an asshole. While the Bible may claim that God is LOVE, I have only felt the opposite. There are a few people in this world that I truly love...I would never kill their best friend. I wouldn't kill their puppy. Some say that there is a reason for everything...in the 16 years since Rumbo died, the 9 years since Jerimee was killed, I have yet to see any "good" come from their deaths...unless you count that I refuse to pray for anyone that I love in fear that this "God" will kill them off too. So basically, I am who I am. I am not anything religious. Gwen shared a "religion" quiz on a different forum a couple weeks ago. I found myself not able to answer the questions. I would go through the questions and started asking myself "wait, am I answering this way because that is what I was taught growing up, or is that what I truly believe and feel?" I came to the conclusion that I'm just not a religious person. Religion and spiritual beliefs do not shape or define who I am. I'm okay with that. Others choose to be religious...and until they either shove that down my throat and/or screw me over, then I'm fine with their beliefs and don't care what they are. Your religion doesn't define who or what you are to me, your actions do.

So, back to why I even wrote this long post. Again, my intention is not to offend. But, someone said that you are accepting of each others beliefs and can still be friendly to one another despite your differences. That's great! But that is not what I felt back in the religious thread. I stated a very muted opinion, something to the effect that I felt God hated me, if he is even real. None of you knew my background or what had happened in my life that would make me feel that way. I was not looking for a pity party, I was simply stating my beliefs, so as to say that I am not a fan of religion. I read all your replies to the original question, and even though I thought some of your beliefs were totally dumb, I kept my mouth shut, as I knew my thoughts would hurt your feelings. You believe the way you do, and I am not looking to change your religious beliefs, and I would have appreciated the same respect. In response to MY beliefs though, I got replies like "Oh, no, God doesn't hate you" and "oh, Jesus loves you!" and crap like that. I actually find people telling me that Jesus or God or whoever loves me, I find that as a huge insult, especially after I just made it clear that me and the man upstairs, if there is one, are not on good terms. I can't recall a time when I felt "God's" love, but some of you just assumed that "God loves me" and that I was obviously mistaken in my views and/or beliefs, not even knowing where my stance came from. Because you believe that god loves everyone, you felt like I should agree. I don't. But I'm past the point where I care about a god. I guess what I am trying to say is that when you have a group with differing opinions, you should think before you speak about it. Think about how someone would take your comment, and if the resulting feelings are worth even making the statement. Someone talked in depth about their religious beliefs and I thought they were nuts and cultish....but I thought about what that person would feel if I said that I think they are stupid for falling for that crap? There was no point, so I kept my fingers folded. Others didn't bother to think, and ended up being insulting, even if your intentions were "good". Its old common sense, think before you speak and if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

I shall now accept my banishment for being different.

[Mandy]

Hmm... ok, i was going to walk passed this thread, but turned back to give my 2c.
I know i am not on here very often, not as much as ide like to be, but i have always loved this place.
Sure i have my favorites on here, but most ladies on here, are very very sweet.

It's not hard to respect each other girls, if you dont like a thread, ignore it, and move on.
This has for a long time been a close knit community and a lot of us have got to know al lot about each other.
For a lot of people, seeing newbies with different values and ideas, might sound/feel strange, but even 4wt needs new energy.
I'm sorry if you newbies or oldies have felt left out or ignored, it might be a good idea to start a new introduction thread.
From experience i know that polotics, and religion dont go down well on chat sites and forums, so it might not be wrong to keep that to ourselves, or discuss it in PM or IM with friends that have the same values.

I hope we can all get along, and make this place into what it use to be, with newbies, and oldies.

[Emmsmom]

Heather, I don't think that anyone here would turn you away for you relgious beliefs. I haven't known these ladies very long but from what I have seen they just aren't that way. I am sorry you were offended by some of the ladies. However, I think it is safe to say that somewhere inside you still want to believe in God. You wouldn't have tried to go back to church if you didn't. You also never explained your feelings the way you have here. Do I think that their responses would have been different? No, I don't. That in no way means that they were insulting you. I am sorry you took it that way.

It seems like you have been through a lot in your life and I am sorry that you didn't have more of a support group. I haven't been to church in ages. Like you I too have questioned A LOT. Somehow tho I just keep telling myself that there has got to be something better. Am I bitter at times? Sure I am. I start to think back on my own life and how dirty my own mother treated me and I start to question why God didn't do more to help me. So yeah I have questioned a lot but somehow still managed to hold on to my faith. Altho I still struggle with that every day. I have a very real problem with forgiveness. My grandmother makes it clear to me that I "need" to forgive. I love her dearly but I just can't bring myself to do it. She tells me every chance that she gets that God loves me. I don't find it insulting despite how bitter I am at times. So do I think that God loves people like us that question him? Sure I do. Try not to feel insulted when others say things like this. If they didn't care then they wouldn't say anything at all. Who knows maybe that is God's way of talking to those of us who are so stubborn. Lord knows I am hell bent on holding grudges and I need all the help I can get. I truly am sorry for your losses over the years. ((HUGS)).