What would you do?

[Tink]

In a few days our survey to draw out the boundaries of our lot will be done.

My dilema is this: Our fence is going to have to go up quick so the markers driven in by the surveyor aren't tampered with, and it's very possible that it will shut them out of a large portion of their vegetable garden. There's also a large patch of raspberries on what will "likely" prove to be our land. The raspberries were there long before either they or us moved here, so I see those as a bonus for us.
Their veggie garden is a different matter.

We can fence them out, and I suppose legally, prevent them from tending or harvesting anything on our land. However we're going to still have to live next to them for a while.
If they were decent neighbors, I wouldn't even be asking this question, because we'd just let them finish out the year.
Since they've been anything BUT decent, I hesitate to let them step foot on our property for ANY reason.
I expect the question to come up as soon as they see the surveyor out here marking the boundaries. They have no clue right now what we have planned and we don't plan to tell them ahead of time.
Naturally, if they get threatening when they find out about the survey, there's no way they'll have any chance of getting near the garden. But on the long-shot that they act civilly, what would you do? Let them in to tend and harvest? or Shut them out completely just to be done with it?

[Tink]

I've been trying to research what would be the best thing to do and came across this info on ethics... trying to make a right choice. I found it interesting and thought others might as well.

What's the Big Deal About Decisions?
We make choices every day. Some of our choices are practical decisions about what will work best, look prettier, feel softer, taste sweeter, sound clearer or last longer. Those decisions don't necessarily involve right or wrong; they involve efficiency, availability, practicality or preference. For those choices list your options, gather information about your choices, list the pros and cons for each one, select the best option and there you have it - a real decision.

On the other hand many of our choices are about doing the right thing.
Each of these choices involves thousands of messages whirling inside the brain. In a split second our minds review the facts, explore our feelings, study consequences, compare the options against our beliefs and priorities, consider what others may think, and give the cue for action. Decisions happen so quickly but the consequences can last a lifetime. That's why careful consideration is important. A code of ethics can help. It determines direction in our lives.

What Is Ethics?
Ethics is a set of standards that tells us how we should behave. No person with strong character lives without a code of ethics.

Ethics is more than doing what you must do. It's doing what you should do. Because acting honorably sometimes means not doing what we want to do, ethics requires self-control.

Ethics involves seeing the difference between right and wrong. It's a commitment to do what is right, good and honorable. Ask yourself if you are willing to pay the price for making an unethical choice. Are you willing to sacrifice pride, integrity, reputation and honor by making an unethical choice? Are you willing to suffer the consequences of a bad choice?

Because doing the right thing can cost us more in friendship, money, prestige or pleasure than we may want to pay, practicing ethics takes courage. The right thing to do isn't usually the easiest thing to do, but learning to say no when you feel like saying yes builds character.

How To Make Ethical Decisions
Important decisions take time and careful thought. Here is a plan that works.

1. Think about the impact of your actions on all the stakeholders! Stakeholders are those people affected by a decision. That is, they hold a stake in it. Before you do anything, determine who is likely to be helped or harmed. Avoid or reduce the harm.

2. Ethical principles (trustworthiness, respect, responsibility, fairness, caring and citizenship) are ground rules for life. Ask yourself whether your options are trustworthy, respectful, responsible, fair, caring and examples of good citizenship.

3. Ethical values (trustworthiness, respect, responsibility, fairness, caring and citizenship) outrank and override unethical ones (money, popularity and prizes)!

4. The long run outranks the short run. After all these steps, if you are still unsure of what to do, go with the choice that will produce the most good for the most people. To make tough decisions, eliminate choices that have nothing to do with ethics (like power, popularity and prizes). Then pick the most ethical option left.

Bad Choice Detectors
We have smoke detectors to alert us of potential danger. We have alarms to warn us of dangerous choices too.

Use these personal warning systems:

? Golden Rule - Treat others the way you want to be treated.

? Publicity - How would your choice look on the front page of the school newspaper, or on "20/20" or "60 Minutes"?

? Mom-on-your-shoulder - What if your mom or grandmother was watching you? Would you want her to know what you were saying or doing?

? Universality - If everyone did it, would it be a good thing?

[Janet]

I think, if it were me in your place and they acted civil, I would let them in to work and harvest, let's say one day a week the same day every week. What ever day you prefer.

BUT, if they act like jerks, too bad, so sad, they lose!

[Tink]

Thanks Janet, that's how I'm feeling about it.
I really don't want to make things worse or keep this craziness going.
But I'm also not willing to take any more of their foolishness over it.
Dh wants to get one of those empty video camera cases to hang pointed in the direction of the new lotline to deter them from messing with it... I'm not sure if that would be good or cause more animosity.

[judy]

How much longer is the season for this garden? It is the right thing to do, but they're druggies, vindictive, possibly dangerous, and then they turn around and use you as their babysitter.

I'm not sure! Is there a way that you can tend to their garden, just until whatever they've planted isn't wasted, deposit the produce on their porch and then be done with them?

[Tink]

Judy, the strawberries here are still being picked. Tomatoes are marble sized and the corn is maybe knee high... so we're talking another 1 - 2 months. My health doesn't allow me to do a high maintenance garden, which is why I've kept mine very minimal as for hoeing, weeding, etc. I have coronary artery disease, have had a heart attack, have 2 stents, and just don't have the stamina needed to tend a big garden. I'm also allergic to the sun so break out in blisters that stick around for over a week if I'm out in it for more than a few minutes a day. I have 3 on my nose right now from when my granddd was here yet.

Dh is only home a day or 2 on weekends, so he doesn't have time to work a garden or we'd have a bigger one ourselves. I'd like to be able to offer them their produce, but that would mean either letting them do it or hiring someone else to come in for it, and I really don't like either idea a whole lot. I guess I'm just not feeling a lot of neighborly love for them given our history with them. I know that's not real nice, yet I don't expect that they'd appreciate the gesture anyway... because they have this sense of entitlement that would prevent that.

[judy]

That's the thing - I don't think your very good intentions would be appreciated either.
Obviously you can't tend to their garden. I'm so sorry you've had all of these things happen to your health. I just wonder if it's really a good thing to let them tend to it.
They won't appreciate it, they'll more than likely do damage in some way to your property, and it's not going to work out well for you.

That being said, do you still do the "right thing?" I'm just not sure what I would do.
Sometimes, there's a fine line between turning the other cheek and accepting abuse
which is not good for you or for them.

In other words, if you let them into the garden, are you being an enabler or a good person?

[DianaB]

I would probably let them harvest and work the garden until they caused trouble. Let them know up front what they can and can't do and put it in writing. Then I would let them know that there would be NO second chances. Take it or leave it. They may decide that it might not be worth the effort and you'll be done with them.

[Janet]

You know, I've been thinking about this for awhile. Except for the corn, most everything could be replanted, if done in the evening and watered good before going to bed. Why not tell them they have a certain amount of time to get it out and then put the fence up as soon as possible. Would that be feasible?

This is really a hard dilemma. I know as soon as the lines were drawn, I'd want the fence up so they couldn't mess with it. If you wait, you could end up having to do it all over again.

[Emmsmom]

As much grief as they have given you I think you should claim the land and tell them they have to move thier stuff I would let them get the vegatable this year but I would let them use the land to plant any crops again. Just make sure when you tell them about the property lines you aren't alone. Good luck

[Marilyn]

If you allow them on your property after you have had the survey done, I'd have them sign something relieving you of any liability in the event that they are hurt while on your property. Your kindness could back fire if they claim an injury and decide to sue. I'd also talk to my insurance agent to make sure your insurance would protect you, just in case.

[Willow]

I don't know what the laws are about this where you live, but here in Ohio, if someone has planted a garden even if the property didn't belong to them, according to state law they are allowed to reap their produce...harvest it whatever...unless the property owner pays them fair value for the harvest.

I would contact your local court house and ask them who you should speak with to find out if there are any laws regarding this. You should make sure that there isn't any legal legs for them to stand on if you fence it in.

We are having a similiar issue with our new neighbor, except that they are trying to claim OUR fence as theirs and are even saying THEY paid for and put the fence in (not true!).

[blowry]

Hi Tink! I just came up on this post so, I really don't know the whole story...But, why did they plant gardens on YOUR property? And...(I'm assuming) that this is a new property you bought?? and they planted there before you bought it? If they are nice people I would, very nicely tell them what you are doing and give them the chance to either ,move their plantings(that can be moved) or, that they come onto your property once a week (like someone here had mentioned) to tend to their garden with, full well knowing that YOU are not responsible for their garden or anything that happens to it..HOWEVER....if they are hateful neighbors...I would tell them what you are doing and that they need to move everything, that they can...off your property by a certain time or the plants will be destroyed....

Does that sound harsh?!!

[2tiredmom]

tink,

I just got in on this one on the tail end too. I use to work in the Auditors office here in Indiana and have moved down the the Recorders office. We have seen alot of problems like this. Normally the people with the garden have the right to
either move their plants or at least harvest them. But I'm not sure you have a good comunication with your neighbors. I would at least let them know you were putting up a fence and that part of their garden is on your property. But like I said. I don't know the whole story. I would contact your county's plan commission and see what they would have to say about who has the rights here.
They should know.

Your in my prayers.

[Tink]

Thanks ladies.
The surveyor promised to be here on Tuesday, so we'll soon know to what extent our issues with the garden go. I'd love to be able to just let them pick their stuff, get along decently, and not have to spend all this money on a survey and fence. We have about 3/4 acre, so you can imagine fencing it isn't going to be cheap!

The last survey we had done cost us $2,500, so this isn't something we do without good reason. We'll be the only ones in the village with a fence for any purpose other than to hold in livestock, which isn't a trend I really want to start.
Depending on how much the actual survey costs, we might end up just putting a fence up between their place and ours and enclosing a couple of kennels to keep the dogs contained in a different area. The other sides of the lot might have to wait til we can come up with more cash.