We're So Outa Here!!!!

[Marilyn]

Shada, I am so with you on this!!! I share your concerns, and Diana, I share your concerns as well. I'm concerned about punishment our country may receive. With government interference in our lives, where will it end?

I spoke with the manager of a company today that is/was planning on building 4 ethanol plants in Texas. They were announced, the land is there, permits have been obtained, but the mortgage crunch causing economic uncertainty and the combination of high fuel costs and floods resulting in the rising corn prices have the projects on hold and they may be completely cancelled. Banks are unwilling to offer millions of dollars of financing for these ventures when they are already strapped from forclosures and with concerns over the future of corn prices. The ethanol plants were going to help our economy by 1. reducing our dependance on foreign oil, 2. creating jobs for both construction and for permanant operation and maintenance, 3. helping suppliers of materials for construction and maintenance, 4. increasing the tax base in the counties where they would be constructed resulting in more funds for schools and other needs. It's like a catch 22. We can't afford not to build them and can't afford to build them.

We were hoping to sell them valves which would also help the economy.

I don't know the answer. Just wishing there was something that we could do. I'm not sure anyone is really listening. We're not the ones running this country.

[Ponyup]

Originally Posted by Janet

I'm sorry I don't have any idea. There hasn't been anything in the paper recently either, but as soon as I hear something I'll let you know. Your husband could probably contact the Clinton Co. Chamber of Commerce. I'm sure they'd have lots of information or at least send him in the right direction.

Thanks Janet. I mentioned it to him & he didn't seem real thrilled about becoming a wind farmer, but you never know.

[judy]

I also am afraid of divine retribution. Not just our country, but the whole world.

Humans can do such wonderful things for each other, and yet, so many have chosen to have the poorest values, and no respect for life itself. I feel that our government is just part of that crowd. Their mission is surely not to ensure our lives, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

In NY, our mayor is a real nut, although he sometimes has good intentions. He implemented a ban on using trans fats in restaurants recently. It's not a bad idea, but it is my choice to eat what I choose to eat. I'm very uncomfortable with the government deciding on what foods I can eat.

[Ponyup]

Originally Posted by judy

I also am afraid of divine retribution. Not just our country, but the whole world.

Humans can do such wonderful things for each other, and yet, so many have chosen to have the poorest values, and no respect for life itself. I feel that our government is just part of that crowd. Their mission is surely not to ensure our lives, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

In NY, our mayor is a real nut, although he sometimes has good intentions. He implemented a ban on using trans fats in restaurants recently. It's not a bad idea, but it is my choice to eat what I choose to eat. I'm very uncomfortable with the government deciding on what foods I can eat.

I agree with what you are saying. I feel the same way about seat belts. There is documentation upon documentation that says seat belts save your life, but it should be my choice whether I save my life or not. Wearing a helmet on a motorcycle isn't a law, so why should they be able to fine me if I choose not to save my own life by not wearing a seatbelt. I think it's just an easy way for the state to make more money off of people.

[Marilyn]

These issues are the ones that frighten me. Government is way to involved in our personal lives.

I'll give you one example, and I know it's controvercial, but it could affect many of us. Re: The faith based initiatives that our leaders are talking about where federal funds will be available for faith based programs. The programs must be able to show that they are not discriminating in any way. Now, I am not in favor of government funding of faith based programs overall. IMO, churchs should fund their own programs. However, by faith based programs opening up to the federal government and having the govenment review the program for discrimination opens up a whole can of worms. Many faiths do not believe that it is God's will that women function in a leadership position. Many faiths are not accepting of gays in leadership positions. We do not want the government dictating to us that we should not be "discriminating" in matters of faith. This kind of government involvement in religion is what caused many of our ancestors to flee Europe and start a new life in the New World. I'm not sure there is any place for us to flee to should the government decide that our religious practices are discriminatory and try to force us to have women and/or gay bishops.

This may sound far fetched, oh the government would never do that, well, they won't let the restaurants in NY serve trans fats. Think about it.

Okay, maybe the new country, TexOkKanas will let us have more liberty.

[judy]

I agree with you Marilyn. Why does the government feel the need to fund faith based programs? You can have 5 people sitting on folding chairs in somebody's living room and have a fine faith based program going on. Add some kids playing in the yard, throw in a few dollars for upkeep, needy families, etc., and you have all you need.

The government has no business sticking their noses into the various beliefs people have. The only faith based program they should be funding is one where
people are taught to respect others' beliefs, keep their own, and let everyone believe what they believe without bias.

[DianaB]

Originally Posted by Ponyup

I agree with what you are saying. I feel the same way about seat belts. There is documentation upon documentation that says seat belts save your life, but it should be my choice whether I save my life or not.........

I had two friends that died in a car accident because they had their seat belts on. They were in the middle seat. Their husband's were in the front seats with no seat belts and lived through the accident. It was a very sad situation. My sister-in-law was about 14 and was with them in the accident. She was fine. I always think of them when I'm MADE to buckle up.

Originally Posted by Marilyn

...........Okay, maybe the new country, TexOkKanas will let us have more liberty.

I love it, Marilyn!!!!! TexOkKansas!!!!!

[DianaB]

We consider the United States a "Christian nation" but we're losing that standing. How can we expect God to pour His blessings out on us when we're removing any mention of Him from our country. The 10 Commandments are being removed from any government public place. Nativities are removed and saying Merry Christmas is taboo. No prayer is allowed in school. We hear all the time of some student in trouble for having a Bible group, or carrying his Bible in school, or wearing a Biblical shirt in public. The Bible talks about bad times ahead and I, personally, think that we are just seeing the tip of the iceburg. I'm worried about what's ahead.

[judy]

"We hear all the time of some student in trouble for having a Bible group, or carrying his Bible in school, or wearing a Biblical shirt in public."

Diana,

I have never heard of this happening! In NYC, people wear shirts that represent their beliefs, bumper stickers are abundant, and nobody would ever be upset if someone was reading their bible. I have a Christian fish symbol, with Greek symbols inside, on my car. I bought it like that, and would never take it off!

I'm shocked that this is happening elsewhere! How sad and awful.

Merry Christmas!!! So there....let them come and arrest me. You already know what I'll call them.

[Marilyn]

Fortunately we don't have that problem around here, yet. My daughters wore t-shirts to school openly with scriptures on them and had no problems. My husband and I have done the same and the only feedback we have had is thumbs up, and a tap on the shoulder to say that they agree with us.

We have Christian prayer at public school functions, say "under God" in the pledge of allegence. So far we have gotten away with it. Not to say we may not in the future. There is a mosque in town, and with more and more diversity, may come more and more sensorship.

[Emmsmom]

This will def shock you! LOL

At my daughter's elementary school there is a bible program that the kids can choose to participate in. She goes to a public school too. At the begining of the school year she joined the chorus group. She didn't really like it very much and wanted to find something else to do. One of her friends told her about a Bible calss that she was taking and my daughter decided to give it a try. This group is from a local church that has bought an old school bus and made it into a class room. During the class the bus leaves the school grounds and goes across the street to an empty parking lot. When the class is over they bring them back to school. This lasted the whole year. She loved it! Of course we had to fill out paperwork and give permission. I also chatted with the teacher as well. They were a great! I think it would be really great if more programs like this were offered.

[Janet]

We have a Christian Students at our school. The kids go in early, before school starts and have Bible class and then by the time the buses pull in, they are outside, gathered in a circle, holding hands saying their last prayer of the class. It's wonderful!

[Dobie]

Unfortunately, we have a very organized atheist community in my city - they are very quick to attempt to bring legal action against anything they see as an infringement of their "freedom from religion" - they recently bullied the local high school (with the help of the ACLU) to ban kids from holding Bible studies on school property - apparently it would be offensive to any non-believer that happened to be walking by.
This is the same group that you can all thank for Nativity scenes disappearing from public squares. They took their case to the U.S Supreme court almost 20 years ago, even though private funds paid for the scene in our town square, they won the fight that it was against the Constitution. So now our "Holiday" display consists of snowflakes, snowmen and "Holiday" trees (apparently it is also offensive to say Christmas.

[DianaB]

Our community has had a run-in with the ACLU too. We have a Christmas pagent that the school puts on every year that tells about the birth of Jesus. Someone decided to turn the school in and now it can't be supported with school funds so a couple of local clubs pay the expenses and participation isn't required anymore. There's talk of this being the last year for it. It's sad how one person can complain and change things for everyone.

[judy]

Diana,

I think you should have the Christmas pageant somewhere else, but definitely have it!

The truth is, no matter what the atheists say, or the ACLU, or the government, kids are brought up with religion and they are not going to be quiet about it in school. We had quite a diversity of religions in my school.

They certainly voiced their opinions, especially when I taught Health and we discussed abortion, homosexuality and so on. There were some interesting, and very loud, debates in my classroom. I was happy to allow it because I think school is a very appropriate and safe place to be allowed to voice your real opinions and to learn about other peoples' beliefs. Nobody was ever allowed to be right or wrong in my class, but they certainly had the right to believe what they were taught to believe, and to be respected for it.

When I taught about evolution in Biology, I devoted a large part of the beginning lessons to discussing the fact that, in no way, does anybody have to believe in it. My main points were - believe what you were raised to believe - never let anyone tell you differently, but the NYS Biology Regents will be asking questions about evolution. They had to learn the facts required by the state, and then forget all about them if they wanted right after the Regents. They were fine with that, and I never heard a complaint from a parent.

I really dislike the fact that the atheists were able to change laws because of their beliefs. The squeaky wheel gets oiled is all that's about.
I really feel that we should just respect the fact that not everyone believes the exact same things, and that that is fine, and not in the least bit offensive.