Religious Affiliation

[DianaB]

Originally Posted by CoyoteQueen

hhmm, I guess I have to disagree slightly, I believe in preordination. I think your life is planned from the start and its known since before the foundations of the earth what your choices will be thus your more destined than it being by your good works. (read Ephesians 14-13).......

Ok, (deep breath) to address the part about predestination.......The scripture that you posted includes a few others with it. Ephesians 1:11-14 11In him we were also chosen,[e] having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.

This is a very difficult passage to understand but here goes and I'm going to copy the study notes from my Bible on this because I think that it explains it very well.

"Concerning election (being chosen) and predestination, we might use the analogy of a great ship on its way to heaven. The ship (the church) is chosen by God to be His very own vessel. Christ is the Captain and Pilot of this ship. All who desire to be a part of this elect ship and its Captain can do so through a living faith in Christ, by which they come on board the ship. As long as they are on the ship, in company with the ship's Captain, they are among the elect. If they choose to abandon the ship and Captain, they cease to be part of the elect. Election is always only in union with the Captain and his ship. Predestination tells us about the ship's destination and what God has prepared for those remaining on it. God invites everyone to come aboard the elect ship through faith in Jesus Christ."

[DianaB]

Originally Posted by CoyoteQueen

.......... I take quite literally that our good works are as "filthy rags" (menstruel clothes, and in that time untouchable) simply because we are never, no matter what we do going to be able to "earn" the blood of Christ. His was the supreme sacrifice, as he was/is diety and nothing you or I can do as in works can earn us eternal life. It is a gift, I believe freely given and only our pride makes us not want to be beholden.........

In Isaiah 64:6 it says "6But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away." If we go back and look at the whole chapter you'll see that God is responding to Isaiah's prayer about the rebellious nation of Israel. He wasn't recognizing their worship or their works done for Him because of the way they were living their lives.

Matthew 5:16 says "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." So my good works are important but I have to let the light of Jesus shine. The glory for these good works isn't for me but to glorify Jesus, otherwise what I've done is nothing.

Now we do not "earn" the blood of Christ. It is a gift. Ephesians 2:8-9 says "8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast." Works does not save me but faith does!

I'm a human and I make mistakes but when I asked Jesus into my heart He covered me with His blood and made me His child. Now when the Heavenly Father looks at me it is through the precious blood of Jesus and it's like He's looking at me with rose-colored glasses and He sees me as perfect. Of course, I will never be perfect and I do make mistakes in my life but as long as I'm trying my best to follow what the Bible says and I have Jesus in my heart then I know that someday I will be with Him in Heaven.

[DianaB]

Originally Posted by CoyoteQueen

.........However, I guess that wasnt really the question I was trying to ask! LOL! Sorry I wasnt plain. I wanted to know, if you believe you have the faith to die? Would you grasp at straws to preserve this earthly life if you truly believed you have an wonderful hereafter waiting for you? If you really believe should you not be eager to die?

I'm sorry to post so many times but you had several things in your post to address, Coyote. I hope that I'm not boring you.

Do I have the faith to die? Let me put it this way, Coyote, if you and I were in an extremely dangerous spot and only one of us could make it out alive then I would stay behind because I know where I'm going to spend eternity. No doubts. I would hope that by my death that you would have time to come and know Jesus as your Savior.

Would I grasp at straws to preserve this earthly life if you truly believed you have a wonderful hereafter waiting for you? If I were to get cancer or something like that it would definitely depend on how advanced the disease was for me to make a decision like that. I don't know that I would "grasp for straws" for I know that I'm headed for a better place. I would take some treatments but I wouldn't go overboard and try everything just to stay alive. I do have a wonderful family and several grandchildren that I would love to see grow and become adults. Plus I have a much younger daughter that I want to see happily married and her children. I defintely wouldn't be "desperate" to stay alive though.

If you really believe should you not be eager to die? No, not eager to die. Each of us has a different circle of friends in our life, like I bet you don't have contact with anyone else in my community, and I am to be the bearer of God's love and His plan of salvation to those that are around me. If I'm eager to die then I lose the time that I have to tell those around me about God. I have a work to do and when I'm finished (and that's not up to me to decide) then God will call me home.

Originally Posted by pearl

coyote, i would think that the belief that there is paradise waiting might spur a person on to die, but i also think that belief also would have a part that if you hurried your death you might effect your paradise. because there is a "plan" for your life and it's up to God to decide when you die.
i don't personally believe that at all, but i think other people may see it that way.

I am also finding this an interesting thread!and thats an excellent point Pearl. I dont think we should attempt to hasten our deaths! I just am heart broken for my family members who actually try to raise their dead. I think your religious beliefs should give you peace in death. I dont think they have that.

I have spent years reading different translations of the bible, different theologies from different organized religions and even pagan beliefs and theorys. The thing I have noticed is its in the details. Once you scrape all the top layers off, most forms of religion are simply saying the same thing. It is many faceted, for sure. I think we each get hung up on our little details!

Judy, thanks for your well wishes. I do love attending the Catholic church. Their ceremonies are unbelievably beautiful. I personally have spent most of my life reading the bible and have very decided convictions and personal beliefs. I dont feel that being Catholic in any way takes away from my personal beliefs. I have found that Catholicism has been a lovely way to worship. A place for me to join in with other people and enjoy a community of people who have the desire to live good and wholesome lives. I am further comforted by the fact that Catholicism has been around since the very early days of christianity. They are not following a new vision, but rather a tradition of beliefs. I dont like fly by night religions. So, I would have to say that this church fits me nicely!

Originally Posted by DianaB

I'm sorry to post so many times but you had several things in your post to address, Coyote. I hope that I'm not boring you.
[
no problem!

Do I have the faith to die? Let me put it this way, Coyote, if you and I were in an extremely dangerous spot and only one of us could make it out alive then I would stay behind because I know where I'm going to spend eternity. No doubts. I would hope that by my death that you would have time to come and know Jesus as your Savior.

what a sweet offer, god forbid we are ever in that situation but I feel pretty confident in my destiny and fate! so the sacrifice wouldnt be necesary! thanks tho!

Would I grasp at straws to preserve this earthly life if you truly believed you have a wonderful hereafter waiting for you? If I were to get cancer or something like that it would definitely depend on how advanced the disease was for me to make a decision like that. I don't know that I would "grasp for straws" for I know that I'm headed for a better place. I would take some treatments but I wouldn't go overboard and try everything just to stay alive. I do have a wonderful family and several grandchildren that I would love to see grow and become adults. Plus I have a much younger daughter that I want to see happily married and her children. I defintely wouldn't be "desperate" to stay alive though.

If you really believe should you not be eager to die? No, not eager to die. Each of us has a different circle of friends in our life, like I bet you don't have contact with anyone else in my community, and I am to be the bearer of God's love and His plan of salvation to those that are around me. If I'm eager to die then I lose the time that I have to tell those around me about God. I have a work to do and when I'm finished (and that's not up to me to decide) then God will call me home.

as I shared above, I am still trying to drive home the point that these 2 stories I shared are of grieving families who are trying to raise the dead, yet claim to believe their children are "sleeping in Jesus" which IMO is a bit different than going to the Dr for some routine health care!

and now I just want to add, for everyone posting on this thread. Please do not interpret my comments as argumentative. Obviously religion like politics are a very controversal topic. I certainly am not trying to convince anyone to believe like me, and as I have spent years figuring my own path, I am not looking to convert. I am simply fascinated by everyones beliefs.

[DianaB]

I hope that in no way what I have to say is being construed as argumentative. My prayer is that what I have said is presented in a very loving way.

To address the issue of raising a person from the dead.......I DO believe in miracles and I believe that there are still miracles done today. When a miracle is performed then the name of Jesus is lifted up and He is praised. There is no way that man should get the credit for the mracle. No one should feel comdemned. That's not God's way. Why He chooses to answer one prayer and not another I don't have an answer for but I know that God's ways are so above man's ways. He can see the whole picture where we only see a small part. If I have a prayer answered one time but not the next, did I have more faith in one prayer? No, I think that God in His wisdom decides because He knows so much more than I do.

This is not about being raised from the dead but this is a miracle that I heard about........My aunt is an international prayer partner and is friends with a woman named Beth Alvez (I'm not sure about the spelling). Beth was in another country when a woman came to her to pray for her hand which had lost some fingers and was hurting alot. Beth prayed for the woman's pain and went about her day. The next morning she was wakened by a woman outside of her room shouting and carrying on so she went out to see what was going on. It was the woman that she had prayed for and when she looked at the hand......all of the fingers were on it!! That wasn't what she had prayed for at all! Beth took no credit for this but the glory was for God. She went to her knees in prayer at the awesomeness of God and what He had done! Can you imagine seeing such a miracle? We have missionaries that come to our church and there are so many miracles!

miracles do still happen obviously. anyone who is barren only has to look at their fellow sisters and know that the mere fact that a woman can concieve and give birth is the biggest and most underrated miracle ever.

however, while I do believe in miracles, I havent in my lifetime seen anyone raised from the dead or heard of it happening. And like Thomas, I would have had to know the individuals you speak of to believe her fingers came back. Hearing the testimony would no way come close to convincing me, in fact, photographic evidence wouldnt even cut it for me!!!! Sadly we have all seen the way things are exploited for both attention and money and it does seem many like to use God for personal gain.