My Lucas' Liver Issues

MaddieBoo · 11-05-2009, 02:12 PM

Hi Everyone,

I posted this in YT too, just wondering if anyone here has had experience... I'm sorry I'll keep this as short as possible, I just knew I could come here for advice.

My furbutt is Lucas, turned 1 on September 14th. Happy, healthy, rambunctious, playful, hilarious, and (on occasion) a naughty little yorkie. We have never had any problems with his health or his behaviour, to us he is perfect and we love him more every day.

This week, I took him to get groomed by our breeder, who informed me at our appointment that his brother/littermate has been diagnosed with Liver Shunt. The breeder also has Lucas' sister/littermate and suggested to me that we get them both a Bile Acid test to ensure that they do not have it as well. Of course I agreed and yesterday, we took them both to the same vet we both go to. Today the breeder left a message on our machine saying she was going to a town outside our city to another vet based on the results. We were very confused so we called the vet and got Lucas' results.

The vet said that it is unlikely that he has liver shunt,especially since he has had no signs or symptoms that anything is wrong. But his levels are much higher than a normal dog's functioning liver 75 versus 25. She thinks it is probably "microvascular", which she said is common in small breeds. I'm so upset and worried that my little guy is sick, and I really don't know enough about liver conditions.

I just need some advice on what exactly this could be, and what I should do. They say they can do a biopsy to find out exactly what is wrong, and that it would be done maybe by ultrasound or they may have to cut him open which I would really not prefer.

Should I pursue further testing? Is there anything in his day to day life I should be changing?

They also suggested a supplement of amino acids that may help, and I was wondering if anyone is familiar with this?

Is this something my breeder should have tested his parents for before breeding? Or is this a fluke that no one could have done anything about? I don't want to blame her at all, we think she is so awesome, I just do not know how this occurs.

I'm just devastated and I think it is because I do not know enough about it. Any information or experience with Liver shunt or "microvascular" would be very helpful, since I know there are bound to be some resident experts with this.

Thank you so so much.

paula1961 · 11-05-2009, 03:16 PM

Oh Maddie! I totally understand how worried you must be. I don't have any experience with liver problems. I have bred mine only once and didn't even know about the testing and all that until I became a member of YT. You have to do what you think is best for you and Lucas. If you trust your vet and they said to give him the supplement..maybe you should try that. I truly don't know but I certainly hope that everything turns out for the best for your Lucas. Please keep us informed. I do give mine(I have three) a supplement called Nupro, it has amino acids/protein in it. You can find it online, maybe you might want to read about it. It is suppose to be a very good supplement. They will also send you some free samples. Nuprosupplements.com Good luck sweetie

DianaB · 11-05-2009, 08:46 PM

Janet is our breeder on here and she might know something about it. Gina has been through something with Gucci but I can't remember exactly what it was. Just make sure you check back soon and the other girls will probably have some info for you. I hope that you find out that it's nothing serious.

Gina · 11-06-2009, 07:08 AM

Maddie...

My Gucci is now 5 yrs. old and she was not from a breeder we brought her from a puppy store. I did not know about breeders back then long story short I was never shopping for a dog, when my daughter fell in love with her in a puppy store.. Knowing what I know today I would never buy from a store, but we fell in love with Gucci and I have no regrets in buying or caring for her along with the costly medical bills...We are all in love with this cutie.

Gucci was a healthy little puppy when we brought her home she was tiny about 3lbs. at 2 mts.old she was growing nicely and playful. When she was two years old one weekend she started vomiting , shaking and lethargic . I was not home that day and my husband and son rushed her to the hospital and the nightmare began. All test

Gina · 11-06-2009, 07:13 AM

Oh no I lost the whole post when I went to edit.. is there someway to retrieve ?

Gina · 11-06-2009, 07:36 AM

Ok I rewrote here goes..
Maddie...

My Gucci is now 5 yrs. old and she was not from a breeder we brought her from a puppy store. I did not know about breeders back then long story short I was never shopping for a dog, when my daughter fell in love with her in a puppy store.. Knowing what I know today I would never buy from a store, but we fell in love with Gucci and I have no regrets in buying or caring for her along with the costly medical bills...We are all in love with this cutie.

Gucci was a healthy little puppy when we brought her home she was tiny about 3 lbs. at 2 mts.old she was growing nicely and playful. When she was two years old one weekend she started vomiting , shaking and lethargic . I was not home that day and my husband and son rushed her to the hospital and the nightmare began. They tested her bile's and did an ultrasound. All tests came back that she had liver shunt and we had no choice but to have her operated on. The surgeon was excellent and he explained that she had a single portal shunt and needed to have ameroid constrictor ring put on. She also has micro vascular shunts within the liver but that they cannot operate on that. If you are a member of YT , go back and research my posts I am GucciMyGirl on YT. I don't remember off hand all the testing and what not but I do have notes written and if you need to know anything further I can check for you. I know Gucci did not have a biopsy her tests all showed that she had the shunt.

Fast forward to today Gucci is a whopping 11.5 pds piggy lol.. She lives on the L/D diet from Hills, in which many of the connoisseurs on YT do not approve of. But it works for my girl she was released from the surgeons care about a year ago, he said she is FINE.. She is kept on this diet along with seeing a nutritious dr. she is allowed to have healthy snacks.. banana, apples , cheerios... Maddie I don't know what you feed Lucas but be careful for the protein contexts and fats..

My suggestion is to take the acid tests and then go from there, he may not have Liver Shunt , if he does has the micro vascular shunts there is nothing really to do for that as far as operating goes. Speak to the vet do not be afraid to ask questions and write everything down. Read articles on the Internet make yourself educated on this disease.. Don't worry everything will be fine, if the worst case scenario that he has it take care of it now. There is hope and it doesn't have to mean a death sentence.

I hope that you get good news and I will keep Lucas in my prayers as all these other wonderful ladies will... Any other questions I am here for you.. Good luck!

PS I know nothing about breeders Janet can help there...

Lindsey · 11-06-2009, 08:25 AM

Maddie, I am so sorry you're having to go through this! I just did a quick Google search and it looks like it hasn't been proven to be hereditary yet, and there are no tests for breeders but they are working on it. Liver shunt can be aquired after having other liver issues. Here is the information I found:
http://www.roobearyorkies.net/livershunt.cfm
Gina has given good advice. If I were in your situation I would go ahead with the testing too. It's better to be safe than sorry. I hope everything turns out well! Give Lucas some hugs!

MaddieBoo · 11-06-2009, 11:59 AM

Thanks so much everyone. You are all such a wonderful help!

The breeder took Lucas' test results as well as Izzy's (his sister) test results to another vet she goes to and he took blood from Izzy and did an ultrasound, both looked normal.

We will be getting Lucas' full blood work done to see if anything is out of whack, and go from there.

Based on the bile acid results, the other vet said that this litter may just have some higher levels and that it may not even affect their lives whatsoever. He basically said not to panic, as sometimes bil acid test alone can be inconclusive.

I am going to change Lucas' food because right now he is on grain free and a bit higher protein so we'll deifnitely be watching his protein intake and doing as you said with only feeding healthy treats like fruits veggies etc.

He is such a healthy dog he has no symptoms or any problems at all (except maybe an unhealthy love for nostrils!

) So I'm very optomistic about his blood work etc.

Again, thanks so so much for all your help. Lucas is sending mucho smoochies to all of you!!! I'll update after we get his bloodwork done. You ladies are the BEST!!

judy · 11-06-2009, 02:02 PM

Well, it sounds like he is okay. Thank goodness Maddie! I am praying that his tests confirm this. I think changing his diet is a good idea. Gina is the best source! She has been through the whole thing, and Gucci is doing so well.

DianaB · 11-07-2009, 08:07 AM

I'm glad to hear that you'll be keeping an eye on things and working with his food to get his levels lower. You're a good mommy!!! I hope everything stays alright!! Hugs to Lucas!!!

judy · 11-07-2009, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gina

Oh no I lost the whole post when I went to edit.. is there someway to retrieve ?

Sometimes when that happens, I can go to Edit on my browser, hit "Undo" and I get back what was wiped out.

Janet · 11-07-2009, 02:25 PM

Sorry I didn't see this sooner. If your Vet thinks there is a possiblity of Lucas having liver shunt after having the bile acid test done, then the next step would probably be a protein C test. Ask your Vet about it.

Sometimes the food they eat can cause levels to either be high or low so it's not always LS. Just continue to do your research like the others already suggested.

Blueyes · 11-08-2009, 08:06 AM

I hope everything turns out well for Lucas. Maybe it won't be anything major. Please keep us posted!

MaddieBoo · 12-06-2009, 11:52 AM

Hi everyone,

So sorry I haven't been on here posting. Final exams and papers have been on the go as my semester comes to an end.

We did get Lucas' full bloodwork done and HOORAY! Everything came back normal! Not a glitch in anything. I'm so thrilled that he is ok.

I just wanted to update all of you that Lucas is healthy and happy. Still gonna watch his protein a bit more, but not such a serious situation.

Thanks everyone for your support, Happy Holidays!!!!!

paula1961 · 12-06-2009, 01:23 PM

Awww such wonderful news Maddie! So glad that Lucas is a healthy and happy baby!! Happy Holidays to you too

11-05-2009, 02:12 PM	#1
MaddieBoo Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Calgary, AB, Canada Posts: 129	My Lucas' Liver Issues Hi Everyone, I posted this in YT too, just wondering if anyone here has had experience... I'm sorry I'll keep this as short as possible, I just knew I could come here for advice. My furbutt is Lucas, turned 1 on September 14th. Happy, healthy, rambunctious, playful, hilarious, and (on occasion) a naughty little yorkie. We have never had any problems with his health or his behaviour, to us he is perfect and we love him more every day. This week, I took him to get groomed by our breeder, who informed me at our appointment that his brother/littermate has been diagnosed with Liver Shunt. The breeder also has Lucas' sister/littermate and suggested to me that we get them both a Bile Acid test to ensure that they do not have it as well. Of course I agreed and yesterday, we took them both to the same vet we both go to. Today the breeder left a message on our machine saying she was going to a town outside our city to another vet based on the results. We were very confused so we called the vet and got Lucas' results. The vet said that it is unlikely that he has liver shunt,especially since he has had no signs or symptoms that anything is wrong. But his levels are much higher than a normal dog's functioning liver 75 versus 25. She thinks it is probably "microvascular", which she said is common in small breeds. I'm so upset and worried that my little guy is sick, and I really don't know enough about liver conditions. I just need some advice on what exactly this could be, and what I should do. They say they can do a biopsy to find out exactly what is wrong, and that it would be done maybe by ultrasound or they may have to cut him open which I would really not prefer. Should I pursue further testing? Is there anything in his day to day life I should be changing? They also suggested a supplement of amino acids that may help, and I was wondering if anyone is familiar with this? Is this something my breeder should have tested his parents for before breeding? Or is this a fluke that no one could have done anything about? I don't want to blame her at all, we think she is so awesome, I just do not know how this occurs. I'm just devastated and I think it is because I do not know enough about it. Any information or experience with Liver shunt or "microvascular" would be very helpful, since I know there are bound to be some resident experts with this. Thank you so so much. __________________ Maddie

11-05-2009, 08:46 PM	#3
DianaB Moderator Donating 4WT 13K Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kansas Posts: 16,069	Janet is our breeder on here and she might know something about it. Gina has been through something with Gucci but I can't remember exactly what it was. Just make sure you check back soon and the other girls will probably have some info for you. I hope that you find out that it's nothing serious. __________________ ´¨) ¸.•´¸.•´¨) ¸.•*¨) (¸.•´ (¸.•` ¤ Diana Baker ✞ You and I are friends....... Always remember that if you fall I will pick you up...... After I stop laughing!!!

11-06-2009, 07:08 AM	#4
Gina Donating 4WT 500 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 6,025	Maddie... My Gucci is now 5 yrs. old and she was not from a breeder we brought her from a puppy store. I did not know about breeders back then long story short I was never shopping for a dog, when my daughter fell in love with her in a puppy store.. Knowing what I know today I would never buy from a store, but we fell in love with Gucci and I have no regrets in buying or caring for her along with the costly medical bills...We are all in love with this cutie. Gucci was a healthy little puppy when we brought her home she was tiny about 3lbs. at 2 mts.old she was growing nicely and playful. When she was two years old one weekend she started vomiting , shaking and lethargic . I was not home that day and my husband and son rushed her to the hospital and the nightmare began. All test Last edited by Gina; 11-06-2009 at 07:13 AM.

11-06-2009, 07:36 AM	#6
Gina Donating 4WT 500 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 6,025	Ok I rewrote here goes.. Maddie... My Gucci is now 5 yrs. old and she was not from a breeder we brought her from a puppy store. I did not know about breeders back then long story short I was never shopping for a dog, when my daughter fell in love with her in a puppy store.. Knowing what I know today I would never buy from a store, but we fell in love with Gucci and I have no regrets in buying or caring for her along with the costly medical bills...We are all in love with this cutie. Gucci was a healthy little puppy when we brought her home she was tiny about 3 lbs. at 2 mts.old she was growing nicely and playful. When she was two years old one weekend she started vomiting , shaking and lethargic . I was not home that day and my husband and son rushed her to the hospital and the nightmare began. They tested her bile's and did an ultrasound. All tests came back that she had liver shunt and we had no choice but to have her operated on. The surgeon was excellent and he explained that she had a single portal shunt and needed to have ameroid constrictor ring put on. She also has micro vascular shunts within the liver but that they cannot operate on that. If you are a member of YT , go back and research my posts I am GucciMyGirl on YT. I don't remember off hand all the testing and what not but I do have notes written and if you need to know anything further I can check for you. I know Gucci did not have a biopsy her tests all showed that she had the shunt. Fast forward to today Gucci is a whopping 11.5 pds piggy lol.. She lives on the L/D diet from Hills, in which many of the connoisseurs on YT do not approve of. But it works for my girl she was released from the surgeons care about a year ago, he said she is FINE.. She is kept on this diet along with seeing a nutritious dr. she is allowed to have healthy snacks.. banana, apples , cheerios... Maddie I don't know what you feed Lucas but be careful for the protein contexts and fats.. My suggestion is to take the acid tests and then go from there, he may not have Liver Shunt , if he does has the micro vascular shunts there is nothing really to do for that as far as operating goes. Speak to the vet do not be afraid to ask questions and write everything down. Read articles on the Internet make yourself educated on this disease.. Don't worry everything will be fine, if the worst case scenario that he has it take care of it now. There is hope and it doesn't have to mean a death sentence. I hope that you get good news and I will keep Lucas in my prayers as all these other wonderful ladies will... Any other questions I am here for you.. Good luck! PS I know nothing about breeders Janet can help there... Last edited by Gina; 11-06-2009 at 07:39 AM.

11-06-2009, 08:25 AM	#7
Lindsey Donating 4WT Talker Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Saskatchewan Posts: 3,764	Maddie, I am so sorry you're having to go through this! I just did a quick Google search and it looks like it hasn't been proven to be hereditary yet, and there are no tests for breeders but they are working on it. Liver shunt can be aquired after having other liver issues. Here is the information I found: http://www.roobearyorkies.net/livershunt.cfm Gina has given good advice. If I were in your situation I would go ahead with the testing too. It's better to be safe than sorry. I hope everything turns out well! Give Lucas some hugs! __________________ Lindsey "I don't mind living in a man's world as long as I can be a woman in it..." -Marilyn Monroe

11-05-2009, 03:16 PM	#2
paula1961 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,383	Oh Maddie! I totally understand how worried you must be. I don't have any experience with liver problems. I have bred mine only once and didn't even know about the testing and all that until I became a member of YT. You have to do what you think is best for you and Lucas. If you trust your vet and they said to give him the supplement..maybe you should try that. I truly don't know but I certainly hope that everything turns out for the best for your Lucas. Please keep us informed. I do give mine(I have three) a supplement called Nupro, it has amino acids/protein in it. You can find it online, maybe you might want to read about it. It is suppose to be a very good supplement. They will also send you some free samples. Nuprosupplements.com Good luck sweetie

11-06-2009, 07:13 AM	#5
Gina Donating 4WT 500 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 6,025	Oh no I lost the whole post when I went to edit.. is there someway to retrieve ?

11-06-2009, 11:59 AM	#8
MaddieBoo Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Calgary, AB, Canada Posts: 129	Thanks so much everyone. You are all such a wonderful help! The breeder took Lucas' test results as well as Izzy's (his sister) test results to another vet she goes to and he took blood from Izzy and did an ultrasound, both looked normal. We will be getting Lucas' full blood work done to see if anything is out of whack, and go from there. Based on the bile acid results, the other vet said that this litter may just have some higher levels and that it may not even affect their lives whatsoever. He basically said not to panic, as sometimes bil acid test alone can be inconclusive. I am going to change Lucas' food because right now he is on grain free and a bit higher protein so we'll deifnitely be watching his protein intake and doing as you said with only feeding healthy treats like fruits veggies etc. He is such a healthy dog he has no symptoms or any problems at all (except maybe an unhealthy love for nostrils! ) So I'm very optomistic about his blood work etc. Again, thanks so so much for all your help. Lucas is sending mucho smoochies to all of you!!! I'll update after we get his bloodwork done. You ladies are the BEST!! __________________ Maddie

11-06-2009, 02:02 PM	#9
judy Donating 4WT Yakker Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Denver, NY Posts: 8,097	Well, it sounds like he is okay. Thank goodness Maddie! I am praying that his tests confirm this. I think changing his diet is a good idea. Gina is the best source! She has been through the whole thing, and Gucci is doing so well. __________________ *Judy*

11-07-2009, 08:07 AM	#10
DianaB Moderator Donating 4WT 13K Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kansas Posts: 16,069	I'm glad to hear that you'll be keeping an eye on things and working with his food to get his levels lower. You're a good mommy!!! I hope everything stays alright!! Hugs to Lucas!!! __________________ ´¨) ¸.•´¸.•´¨) ¸.•*¨) (¸.•´ (¸.•` ¤ Diana Baker ✞ You and I are friends....... Always remember that if you fall I will pick you up...... After I stop laughing!!!

11-07-2009, 02:25 PM	#12
Janet Moderator Donating 4WT 18K Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: INDIANA Posts: 21,624	Sorry I didn't see this sooner. If your Vet thinks there is a possiblity of Lucas having liver shunt after having the bile acid test done, then the next step would probably be a protein C test. Ask your Vet about it. Sometimes the food they eat can cause levels to either be high or low so it's not always LS. Just continue to do your research like the others already suggested. __________________ To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven. ECCLESIASTES 3:1

11-08-2009, 08:06 AM	#13
Blueyes Donating 4WT Talker Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 2,119	I hope everything turns out well for Lucas. Maybe it won't be anything major. Please keep us posted! __________________ Betsi

12-06-2009, 11:52 AM	#14
MaddieBoo Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Calgary, AB, Canada Posts: 129	Hi everyone, So sorry I haven't been on here posting. Final exams and papers have been on the go as my semester comes to an end. We did get Lucas' full bloodwork done and HOORAY! Everything came back normal! Not a glitch in anything. I'm so thrilled that he is ok. I just wanted to update all of you that Lucas is healthy and happy. Still gonna watch his protein a bit more, but not such a serious situation. Thanks everyone for your support, Happy Holidays!!!!! __________________ Maddie

12-06-2009, 01:23 PM	#15
paula1961 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,383	Awww such wonderful news Maddie! So glad that Lucas is a healthy and happy baby!! Happy Holidays to you too

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