2.5 weeks to go

[AngieDoogles]

Originally Posted by Tink

Catlover, this is Canada's second and final litter with me. She's 5, so it's getting time to retire her. She had had 2 litters before I got her. She's a wonderful mom and has large healthy litters.

Her last litter was 13 pups, so I expect similar this time. My vet says as long as she's producing healthy litters that are that large, she's obviously not suffering any ill effects. 'Course she gets good quality food, beef liver, eggs and multi vitamins to help keep her built up. When she's nursing a large litter, she also gets puppy formula on her food each day.

You always take such good care of your puppies and their parents Tink. The families who get one of your puppies are definitely lucky, that's for sure!

[Janet]

I was just thinking the same thing Angie. You are a wonderful breeder Tink. Anyone would be lucky to own one of your babies.

[Tink]

Thanks Ladies.
I do try to treat them well. It's only fair considering all they give to me.

Tink, is she a purebred lab? Has she been OFA tested? The reason I ask is, labs are so overbred and poorly bred, and dysplasia has, unfortunately, become very common in the breed. With lots of research and careful breeding, dysplasia can actually be almost eliminated. This was done in a study that was done on service dogs. I happened to read the article in a veterinary journal, and it's amazing what they were able to do. But without OFA testing on both the sire AND the dam (or PennHip) it's impossible to know if a dog has dyplastic tendencies.

Sorry if she's not a lab and I'm jumping to conclusions. I just think it's a topic that everybody should be educated on. It's not just a matter of throwing a male and a female together, as I'm sure you know.

It is my understanding that hip displaysia is a difficult problem to tackle because it is polygenetic, and it is about 30 percent environmental. (Fat puppies are more likely to have trouble than those who are kept lean.) So, trying to keep lines displaysia-free is more complicated than dealing with, for instance, the MDR1 gene. However, OFA or PennHip are highly useful in a breeding program because they can let a breeder know a problem exists even if the dog is not showing symptoms of the problem, and then the breeder knows to elimate the dog from the breeding program before it can pass on its poor structure to puppies.

I haven't spent a great deal of time researching hip displaysia because it is very rare in my breed, borzoi. Unfortunately, two of the biggest problems in borzoi are bloat and bone cancer, two things for which there is no test.

I'm always interested in learning new things, so I'm curious as to what the other dog people here have read about hip displaysia.

[Tink]

Dysplacia is also prevalent in Rotties and German Shepherds which I used to breed, so unfortunately it's nothing new to me. Although not as common in Standard poodles, there is some HD seen in some of them as well.

Yes Catlover, Canada is a reg Lab. And I breed her with a standard poodle.

As protodog pointed out, you can have 2 parents with excellent ratings on OFA that will have pups with HD. The problem can come from the dog being overweight, being allowed to do too much running, jumping and climbing at too young an age, or from an injury to the hips like being hit by a car or kicked by a horse. For anyone who's owned a lab, you know that it's very hard to keep a lab from running, jumping and climbing. They're very energetic and love to be on the go.

As for the reliability of the testing, it's only as good as the vet that does the tests and the technician who reads them. I know of people who have sent in the exact same films under a few different names just to see if they'd get the same rating each time and they did not. Considering the test costs $360, that's pretty disheartening!

I personally prefer to put my money into DNA testing. With DNA testing you not only have proof positive which dog is yours if you should ever need to prove it, but it tests for the following genetic diseases as well.

Dog Diseases

* Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA)
* Hypothyroidism with Goiter (HTG)
(Congenital Hypothyroidism)
* Cystinuria (CYST)
* Globoid Cell Leucodystrophy (GCL)
* Neuronal Ceroid Lipofuscinosis (NCL)
* Phosphofructosokinase Deficiency (PFK)
* Von Willebrand Disease (vWD)
* Narcolepsy (NARC)
* Cone degeneration (CD)
* Canine Leucocyte Adhesion Deficiency (CLAD)
* Hemophilia B (HmB)
* Muscular Dystrophy (MD)
* Myotonia Congenita (MC)
* GMI Gangliosidosis (GMIG)
* Retinal Dystrophy (prad)
* SCID (DNA-PKc & DNA PKc2)
* Mucopolysaccharidosis Type VII (GUSB_NOSVVIII)
* Thrombasthenic Thrombopathia (THROM)
* Progressive Rod-Cone Degeneration (PRCD)


I know HD gets a lot of press, and it is something you do not want to be breeding a weakness for. However, the testing is not yet reliable and in my mind HD is something at least the dog can still live with... many of these other issues they can't.

I do have a 2 yr written guarantee on all of my pups for HD for the protection of my buyers. I have not tested Canada because she is out of tested parents, is 5 yrs old, and the way she jumps and runs I have no concerns about the health of her hips. I got her about a yr ago and plan to spay her when her next litter is weaned.

My other dogs aren't yet old enough to test. They have to be 2 yrs old for OFA. My stud will be 2 in June... my other Lab female just turned 2 and was bred because someone who was visiting thought they were doing me a favor and put the stud in her pen when she was in heat... They had no idea she was in heat and had let him out of the house accidentally.
My labradoodle female is only 7 months old and my other poodle boy is 8 months old.

[pearl]

i'm a dog (specifically lab) person (i don't breed) but did a lot of research when choosing my lab. i am well educated in dog issues.
hip dysplasia IS common in standard poodles. along with many other genetic diseases so it's good you do genetic testing, tink.
it is hereditary and can be worsened by a lot of physical activity. it is also believed by experts to be a lot environment. but with puppies, why take a risk.
you have to look back generations to gauge risk, not just the parents. Dogs rated as good to excellent can be carriers and produce pups with dysplasia.
and, running, swimming and exercise develop the hip muscles which help stave off development of hip dysplasia for a time. it's doing it excessively, such as roading~frisbee catching~ and excessive running and the like that can worsen it when it is present.
Xrays can be accurate and can be read accurately at the proper age. there is room for error. Xrays need to be done by a vet with experience so those breeding must find that vet. if more than one reading is done, i'd say take the worst reading. but it's the puppies' health at stake so i think breeders need to try. my lab is 8 years, so Penn Hip was not as widely used so i don't know as much about that.

my lab breeder gave a Lifetime guarantee against hip dysplasia; age 2 is the earliest they can be tested, and symptoms likely wouldn't show up till older, and many pet owners aren't going to Xray or Penn hip...so i'd say Tink consider a longer guarantee?

anyway, i'm about education when i see a chance. Tink, i really would add xrays or Penn Hip to your breeding program seeing the breeds you use. and as i said, the gentic testing is right on. good luck with the pups.

[pearl]

Originally Posted by Tink

and in my mind HD is something at least the dog can still live with... many of these other issues they can't.

forgot to add, actually they can be quite disabled and in a lot of pain from dysplasia, and hip replacement surgery to take care of it costs thousands of $$. so...it's a real debility to live with.