Welcome newbies, and my .02

[Janet]

Originally Posted by Dobie

We're on the same wavelength Gwen! I was thinking last night about how up and arms we would be if a bunch of new people came over to PM and told us how to run the place.

Sorry if we have caused and uproar - I like this forum and am looking forward to getting to know everyone better.

You're a keeper Dobie...we'd love for you to stay!

Ok, I'm going to give my 2 cents here. I don't know what the other topic was that got out of hand, I've been busy and haven't been on much. Please understand that I mean absolutely no disrespect to anyone or their personal beliefs. I simply want to offer my view, which is much much different than anyone here.

A while back, there was a topic about what your religious beliefs were. I hesitated in responding because I could tell that my beliefs are WAY different than anyone here. When I did respond, I kept my response muted. But here goes. I used to be a "Christian". I went to church [willingly] for 7 years of my life. I was "born again". I taught Sunday school, tithed, I even taught at a Christian School. I read my Bible every night. I said my prayers. I would bend over backwards to help anyone that needed, even if I didn't like them. I tried my hardest to live how "God" wanted me to. What I got in return? A big ole' knife in my back! I was playing mom to my friends two kids who were 6 weeks and 6 years at the time. Some chicks FIL was in the hospital and she was alone. I gathered up the kids at 9 at night and went on my way to be with the chick (whom I personally couldn't stand). I did stuff like that all the time. A few weeks later, I was in the hospital having emergency surgery on Easter. Of all the people at my church of over a thousand people, many of whom I helped [I had been there since there was 11 people in the church], can you guess how many of them showed up to be with me when I was scared out of my mind? How many of them called to see how I was doing after I got out? Did I need anything? NOT A SINGLE ONE. I find that disgusting. And that's just my issues with "people". I also have issues with "God". If there even is a god, he has totally let me down, many times. Not on little things. The first I can remember is when I was a teenager. My Bassett Hound {who was supposed to be fixed} suddenly had 13 puppies. She killed 6 the first night, but I had taken a liking to the runt who wasn't eating. I called my best friend over to spend the night and made her pray that Rumbo would be okay. I prayed too. I woke up the next morning to a dead Rumbo. A few years later, my other best friend, Jerimee, was making some not so good choices. I prayed that "God" would help him make better choices and straighten out. Jerimee was then killed in a car accident. So, if I ever say that I will pray for you...don't be flattered, its a curse. Those are only a few of my experiences. Seven years ago, I quit. I decided that this church crap wasn't for me. I'm not a hypocrite and I didn't fit in with the rest of the church. I finished out my commitment to my Sunday School class, then told them I wouldn't be coming to church anymore. If the knives in my back weren't bad enough already, I found it even more insulting that since I left the church that I had been involved with since it first started, that I thought I made some good friends at...not once has a single person ever even bothered to call to see if I'm still alive. I think that just confirms my decision to get the hell out of there.

So that's part of my background. I went through a period of totally hating God and anyone that claimed to be a Christian. I have since gotten over that. I am a good person, better than most Christians I know. I'm not fake. I do good things for others because I truly want to, and not because I want someone to see that I contributed to the tithe bucket. I do things for others that no one ever sees or even knows about. I don't care...I'm not looking for recognition. I'm happier that way. My parents still beg me to go back to church, offering to buy me things if I will. It doesn't seem to bother them when I say that my seven years of church were the most depressing seven years of my life. I seriously wanted to kill myself. I live my life how I see fit. I'm honest, hardworking, I have integrity, respectful (except in Costco, Walmart or parking lots)...I live my life how I THOUGHT Christians were supposed to live. But I also do things that are big "No-no's" according to some...I see nothing wrong with sex before marriage, and I enjoy it, I will drink on occasion, sometimes to the point of getting fall out drunk, I enjoy that too. I don't do either in excess. There's probably other things I do too, but never in excess. That's just me. I can't blame or credit "God" for who I have made myself. I don't know if there is a god or not, but if there is, then I think he's an asshole. While the Bible may claim that God is LOVE, I have only felt the opposite. There are a few people in this world that I truly love...I would never kill their best friend. I wouldn't kill their puppy. Some say that there is a reason for everything...in the 16 years since Rumbo died, the 9 years since Jerimee was killed, I have yet to see any "good" come from their deaths...unless you count that I refuse to pray for anyone that I love in fear that this "God" will kill them off too. So basically, I am who I am. I am not anything religious. Gwen shared a "religion" quiz on a different forum a couple weeks ago. I found myself not able to answer the questions. I would go through the questions and started asking myself "wait, am I answering this way because that is what I was taught growing up, or is that what I truly believe and feel?" I came to the conclusion that I'm just not a religious person. Religion and spiritual beliefs do not shape or define who I am. I'm okay with that. Others choose to be religious...and until they either shove that down my throat and/or screw me over, then I'm fine with their beliefs and don't care what they are. Your religion doesn't define who or what you are to me, your actions do.

So, back to why I even wrote this long post. Again, my intention is not to offend. But, someone said that you are accepting of each others beliefs and can still be friendly to one another despite your differences. That's great! But that is not what I felt back in the religious thread. I stated a very muted opinion, something to the effect that I felt God hated me, if he is even real. None of you knew my background or what had happened in my life that would make me feel that way. I was not looking for a pity party, I was simply stating my beliefs, so as to say that I am not a fan of religion. I read all your replies to the original question, and even though I thought some of your beliefs were totally dumb, I kept my mouth shut, as I knew my thoughts would hurt your feelings. You believe the way you do, and I am not looking to change your religious beliefs, and I would have appreciated the same respect. In response to MY beliefs though, I got replies like "Oh, no, God doesn't hate you" and "oh, Jesus loves you!" and crap like that. I actually find people telling me that Jesus or God or whoever loves me, I find that as a huge insult, especially after I just made it clear that me and the man upstairs, if there is one, are not on good terms. I can't recall a time when I felt "God's" love, but some of you just assumed that "God loves me" and that I was obviously mistaken in my views and/or beliefs, not even knowing where my stance came from. Because you believe that god loves everyone, you felt like I should agree. I don't. But I'm past the point where I care about a god. I guess what I am trying to say is that when you have a group with differing opinions, you should think before you speak about it. Think about how someone would take your comment, and if the resulting feelings are worth even making the statement. Someone talked in depth about their religious beliefs and I thought they were nuts and cultish....but I thought about what that person would feel if I said that I think they are stupid for falling for that crap? There was no point, so I kept my fingers folded. Others didn't bother to think, and ended up being insulting, even if your intentions were "good". Its old common sense, think before you speak and if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

I shall now accept my banishment for being different.

[Mandy]

Hmm... ok, i was going to walk passed this thread, but turned back to give my 2c.
I know i am not on here very often, not as much as ide like to be, but i have always loved this place.
Sure i have my favorites on here, but most ladies on here, are very very sweet.

It's not hard to respect each other girls, if you dont like a thread, ignore it, and move on.
This has for a long time been a close knit community and a lot of us have got to know al lot about each other.
For a lot of people, seeing newbies with different values and ideas, might sound/feel strange, but even 4wt needs new energy.
I'm sorry if you newbies or oldies have felt left out or ignored, it might be a good idea to start a new introduction thread.
From experience i know that polotics, and religion dont go down well on chat sites and forums, so it might not be wrong to keep that to ourselves, or discuss it in PM or IM with friends that have the same values.

I hope we can all get along, and make this place into what it use to be, with newbies, and oldies.

[Emmsmom]

Heather, I don't think that anyone here would turn you away for you relgious beliefs. I haven't known these ladies very long but from what I have seen they just aren't that way. I am sorry you were offended by some of the ladies. However, I think it is safe to say that somewhere inside you still want to believe in God. You wouldn't have tried to go back to church if you didn't. You also never explained your feelings the way you have here. Do I think that their responses would have been different? No, I don't. That in no way means that they were insulting you. I am sorry you took it that way.

It seems like you have been through a lot in your life and I am sorry that you didn't have more of a support group. I haven't been to church in ages. Like you I too have questioned A LOT. Somehow tho I just keep telling myself that there has got to be something better. Am I bitter at times? Sure I am. I start to think back on my own life and how dirty my own mother treated me and I start to question why God didn't do more to help me. So yeah I have questioned a lot but somehow still managed to hold on to my faith. Altho I still struggle with that every day. I have a very real problem with forgiveness. My grandmother makes it clear to me that I "need" to forgive. I love her dearly but I just can't bring myself to do it. She tells me every chance that she gets that God loves me. I don't find it insulting despite how bitter I am at times. So do I think that God loves people like us that question him? Sure I do. Try not to feel insulted when others say things like this. If they didn't care then they wouldn't say anything at all. Who knows maybe that is God's way of talking to those of us who are so stubborn. Lord knows I am hell bent on holding grudges and I need all the help I can get. I truly am sorry for your losses over the years. ((HUGS)).

I too would like to throw my 2 cents in. I came here because a very dear friend of mine invited me. From the moment I arrived I did not feel comfortable. Not necessarily because of ya’ll but maybe because I felt more like a biker chick storming through the town with my group of ladies. I know we were quite overwhelming when we first arrived. I apologize for that. As you have noticed I have done very little in the way of posting. I personally take my time getting to know people. I prefer searching the site and reading before I overwhelm anyone with my presents.
I am of the older crowd that joined. I am a mother and grandmother and I “HATE”… let me repeat “HATE” confrontation. It makes my stomach turn in knots. Unfortunately… I found myself the butt end of your April Fool’s joke. Not saying it wouldn’t have been funny but I felt a bit picked on for no other reason than I am an outsider. You guys took a passion that this entire group of ladies that joined has and turned it practical joke. I have nothing against jokes. My goodness I have done my fair share. I also have nothing to say bad about Katcarasella since she was nice in her responses to me but some of the other snide remarks are what got to me. Such as how the word “large” got thrown out of contexts. When I stated at least the Yorkie was a large Yorkie I was referring to the larger of the standard which is 7lbs. With my Shih Tzu… If I was to say a “Large” Shih Tzu, I would be referring to a Shih Tzu that is 15 to 16lbs. That is the “Large” end of the standard.
I really do wish you had taken the time to get to know us before you judged us as a bunch of trouble makers. We really are a fun group. We have laughed together as well as cried together. And when our beloved Yotes left we followed her to let her know that she is loved by all of us. We personally wanted her back home where she belongs so that we didn’t upset the balance here. Yes, we posted on her threads, but some of us also tried posting on others and found ourselves being ignored or considered trolls. We are not Trolls. We are human beings just like yourself. When we hurt, we cry. When we are happy, we laugh. When you cut us, we bleed. We really are no different than you. You have your passions and we have ours.
I personally would have liked if you given me a chance but unfortunately you didn’t. You judged me before you ever knew me. Once again I apologize for any of us upsetting your little group. That was never our intent.
With that said I would appreciate if admin would delete my account since I cannot delete it myself. I will trouble you ladies no further. Good day and God Bless.

[pearl]

i think we'rre up to a dollar now.
i'm guilty of coming because coyote came here. i did post on current members' threads, plus new ones. then i lost track, just went where i wished.
the "fix" i felt was factions trying to convince each other. not fun.
the famous religion thread. i was told my beliefs were wrong. then, i admittedly joined a gang-up and posted on something i have strong feelings about, and good knowledge about, dog breeding. it wasn't OK to post opinions about that but was OK for others to tell me my religious beliefs were wrong. felt like the ol' double standard.
and, i am a card carrying liberal and treehugger, but i don't force it. so, then it was posted that this was mostly an older women's conservative forum and it was wished to keep it that way, well i'm older and woman but not conservative.
now, more chiming in say all views are welcome.
i do enjoy forums, have moderated more than one, been a member of several; have moderated a jumpin' rowdy one that 6 mods couldn't keep under control. i know what can happen.
if many views are welcome, if respectful, i really enjoy an exchange of views. i learn that way.
i too have been hurt by members of the born-again fundamentalist way of life, rejected because i wasn't "good enough." but i think it was more their emotional and psychological shortcomings than the rreligion. jesus hung out with tax collectors, hookers, rampant sinners. i think that's more the message.

the etiquette on forums usually is to first hang out, read, be in the background, and come in slowly and let others get used to you. i'm afraid people used this place to be with a friend instead. which, is not a bad motive, just didn't use a lot of common sense. many of us arre sorry for that.

This community shouldn't "belong" to anyone specific. This is a public forum and belongs to every member here, but now that I know that the older members think it's their "forum" I feel totally unwelcome here because I wasn't here when it first started. This forum is to talk about anything. If someone wants to discuss dog genetics, then so be it. If you don't like it, then don't respond. Simple as that.

[DianaB]

I'm sorry that all of this has come about. The religious thread has been mentioned several times and I was certainly a part of that thread. I looked back at the thread to see how I came across and what was said. It's sad that in typing the words that emotions can't show through between the letters because I was truly saying all that I had to say with love. I did capitalize some words, not to shout at anyone, but to show that I had strong feelings about what I was saying at the time. I truly tried to address the questions that were asked with what the Bible had to say about that subject.

I'm sorry that some of you have had problems with your churches or friends inside of the church. All of us make mistakes because none of us are perfect. Don't keep your eyes on people but on God. Enough said about that!

This is an open forum and anyone is welcome to join and we've accepted everyone who's joined. Having a whole group join at once was a little overwhelmiing for all of us. You've had a language all of your own that you understand, but we felt left out and we probably did some of that with you as well. Being friends you kinda' do that. I'm sure that we had posts that left you scratching your head too.

Different opinions have always been welcomed here but not to the point of making another person feel uncomfortable. You present your opinion and I present my opinion and we just accept that we differ. It's just been how we do things on here. We don't have a "set of rules" that we go by so there's no list of rules to give you when you join, we just try to respect each other and each other's feelings. Over time it's just become part of how we treat each other on here.

I understand that there was a problem the other day and we had an April Fool's joke that got out of hand, but it's in the past now and we need to move past it. Believe me, no one was sitting back and thinking that what happened was funny.